Automotive News, Media & Press - Just Checked the Heartbeat of America

Just got back from the NAIAS in Detroit. I saw the Camaro and spent a lot of time listening to people's reactions. While I personally liked it, let's just say the general consensus is extremely negative (at least 4-to-1). In fact, I heard very few positive comments out of anyone. The Challenger, on the other hand, was getting rave reviews from passers-by.

Most people that didn't like the Camaro slammed the retro look, with a lot of "the 4th gen looked better" type comments. (I'm not sure why the Challenger wasn't getting the same comments.) There were a lot of people around the Camaro, but not much excitement. The new Civics, the Challenger, and the GT500 seemed to be the stars of the day.

F'em.Too retro? WTF is the challenger and GT-500?At least the camaro is a fresh look,the other 2 are ripoffs.

The Challenger is nearly 100% retro. Down to the foglights from 1970. It'll be heavy and powered by what seems to be a mod-unfriendly motor. I'll take the Camaro.

I was suprized.... I was looking at a national web page that has up a lot of pics from the auto show. They had view counts under each pic and the challenger photo's easily had 10-12x the views that the Camaro pics had.... Just a small observation. The camaro views were a lot higher than most of the other cars posted, but the challengers views were off the charts..... :confused:

Just got back from the NAIAS in Detroit. I saw the Camaro and spent a lot of time listening to people's reactions. While I personally liked it, let's just say the general consensus is extremely negative (at least 4-to-1). In fact, I heard very few positive comments out of anyone. The Challenger, on the other hand, was getting rave reviews from passers-by.

Most people that didn't like the Camaro slammed the retro look, with a lot of "the 4th gen looked better" type comments. (I'm not sure why the Challenger wasn't getting the same comments.) There were a lot of people around the Camaro, but not much excitement. The new Civics, the Challenger, and the GT500 seemed to be the stars of the day.

I would give the nod to more display hits to the Camaro. The Challenger had alot, but I think the Camaro display had consistently more. Each time I went I had to push my way through a big crowd.

I was there all day Saturday and must say the Camaro looks better in real life even though I'm not totally enamored by the design. I visited the display several times throughout the day and heard few complaints about it but alot "if they build it I will buy it" comments from people of all ages.

I really liked the Challenger and they also had a lot of people around the display, but I walked right up to the GT500 twice with hardly anyone standing around the display.

My take on the Camaro concept styling is "retro cues" vs. the Challenger's flat out retro look. The Camaro has subtle hints of the first gens but doesn't exactly look like a Camaro of the past while the Challenger looks like a custom/restoration version of the original. Kinda like Foose's Cuda recreation he did for Joe Rogan. That would explain the difference in opinion between the two "retro" versions. The Challenger almost looks like a Pro-Touring car.

What was really interesting was how few people were looking at anything else in the Chevy area (except the Z06).

Up close, I was surprised how far the Challenger is from production. In photos, it looks like it came off an assembly line. Up close, it was apparent this body is nearly 100% fiberglass and will take a ton of work to alter for production. The Camaro looked to be a lot closer--at least on the outside. (The interior is a total no-go, though.)

That Ford Super Chief mega-truck was also a big hit, but will never see the street.

I was there as well, and it seemed like the Camaro had a slightly larger crowd on average than the Challenger did. It seems that most people who like the Challenger better are the ones who prefer the retro look. The GT500 was barely crowded compared to the Challenger and Camaro. I snapped off 4 pictures without having to worry about other spectators being in the way.

Maybe a lot of it has to do with the Challenger being out of production for a lot longer period of time?

"I was suprized.... I was looking at a national web page that has up a lot of pics from the auto show. They had view counts under each pic and the challenger photo's easily had 10-12x the views that the Camaro pics had.... Just a small observation. The camaro views were a lot higher than most of the other cars posted, but the challengers views were off the charts....."


However, the number of people at Maro and FBody forums viewing the Maro pics are off the charts...

well i just checked the heart beat of america and it has an elevated pulse of about 92 and a blood pressure of 160/80. i tell america every day to watch it sodium intake but it just won;t listen.

seriously i like the new concept except for the knight rider slit. people keep bitching about how the concept is to retro and he others say it isnt; retro enough. i'd rather have something than nothing.

What was really interesting was how few people were looking at anything else in the Chevy area (except the Z06).

Up close, I was surprised how far the Challenger is from production. In photos, it looks like it came off an assembly line. Up close, it was apparent this body is nearly 100% fiberglass and will take a ton of work to alter for production. The Camaro looked to be a lot closer--at least on the outside. (The interior is a total no-go, though.)

That Ford Super Chief mega-truck was also a big hit, but will never see the street.



the challenger body was almost completely fiberglass, but it is WAY closer to production ready than the camaro.....it will come to market looking very close to the concept.....not to mention while the dodge folks liked to talk about how all of their concepts were fully functioning, the guy by the camaro kept talking about how it was an "art car", and he needed to be very carefull when messing with the door......

did anyone else notice the poor finish quality around the rear quarter lights and rear glass? i knows it's just a concept, but this was THE car for gm that everyone wanted to see, and for an "art car" it had some flaws.....

funniest comment i overheard was "it's nice!! and it's a camaro???" like she was shocked a camaro could look that sharp:eyes:

the challenger body was almost completely fiberglass, but it is WAY closer to production ready than the camaro.....it will come to market looking very close to the concept...

Have you ever engineered a vehicle concept for production? I have, many times, and it's clear you have no idea what you were looking at.

That said, I do agree that it's likely the Challenger "shape" is more likely to reach production intact. The Camaro looks like it was just barely readied for the show on-time. However, it's clear the body was done by someone who was seriously interested in bring it to production and had some experience with that.

Have you ever engineered a vehicle concept for production? I have, many times, and it's clear you have no idea what you were looking at.

That said, I do agree that it's likely the Challenger "shape" is more likely to reach production intact. The Camaro looks like it was just barely readied for the show on-time. However, it's clear the body was done by someone who was seriously interested in bring it to production and had some experience with that.

well, you've got me on that one, i never have engineered a vehicle concept for production......so educate me, what needs to be done????

from my uneducated standpoint, i see a car(challenger) that sits on an existing platform, with an existing drivetrain, that is completely funtional, that has a shape that is very similar to the other cars that are built on the same platform, from a company that has built a rep of making near "production ready" concepts in the last 10 years......

i understand that the camaro also has an existing platform and drivetrain, but nothing else is similar to anything in the gm fold......how do the body lines translate well to production as opposed to the challenger? and how on earth do shoddy fitting lights and rear glass on an "art car" that couldn't even handle the abuse of opening and shutting doors equal "production ready"

I agree with jdustu that the Challenger concept is more production ready than the Camaro. Neither car has been engineered for production, but the Challenger design looks like a production car vs. the more "concept" design of the Camaro. And since the platform for the Challenger is already in production. It would take far less effort to get the Challenger to market than the Camaro. e.g. No one expects the Camaro's interior to look anything like what a production car's interior would look like. Therefore a whole new interior needs to be designed. At first glance the Challenger looks like it could sit on a showroom floor...not the Camaro.

teh platform for the camaro is already in production.

It's clear both cars are a long way out. Both sit on existing platforms. Neither interior complies with even the most rudimentary safety standards. From all that, it's fair to say both are 2-3 years from production. Plus, it makes no difference in wether they resemble their ancestors or not--totally irrelevant.

The Camaro does have an edge in that it's platform is more suitable to becoming a high performance sportscar, whereas the Challenger is a pretender in every area. It will also be easy to tweak the Camaro's lines to comply with federal standards to be in place by 2007--nearly impossible for the Challenger. The Camaro also will be fairly easy to turn into stamped steel because it provides better break lines that won't detract from the look. The Camaro should be much stronger in terms of structural rigidity, at least the way it's looks today, which will simplify making it production ready. There's a lot of other reasons, but these are what jumped out at me at the show.

I was at the show yesterday and I must agree that the camaro concept looks better in person.
I spent alot of time looking at both the camaro and the challenger as they rotated on their displays and I have to give the nod to the camaro. I can't put my finger on what it was with the challenger but something to me just didn't look right. Then again I am pretty bias! :)
I was pleasantly surprised with GM's lineup, they have several interesting vehicles, not as many as Chrysler but imho certainly better than Ford.

It's clear both cars are a long way out. Both sit on existing platforms. Neither interior complies with even the most rudimentary safety standards. From all that, it's fair to say both are 2-3 years from production. Plus, it makes no difference in wether they resemble their ancestors or not--totally irrelevant.

The Camaro does have an edge in that it's platform is more suitable to becoming a high performance sportscar, whereas the Challenger is a pretender in every area. It will also be easy to tweak the Camaro's lines to comply with federal standards to be in place by 2007--nearly impossible for the Challenger. The Camaro also will be fairly easy to turn into stamped steel because it provides better break lines that won't detract from the look. The Camaro should be much stronger in terms of structural rigidity, at least the way it's looks today, which will simplify making it production ready. There's a lot of other reasons, but these are what jumped out at me at the show.


instead of being so vague, how about some specifics ???? interior safety? how long did you spend in the seat? what, there weren't airbags??

i'm not talking about resembling "ancestors", i'm talking about the challenger having a very similar shape to the 300 and magnum, two cars that it will share the ly platform with, and possibly the same assembly line with......it isn't going to be a "high performance sports car", it's gonna be a heavy freaking muscle car......i understand that a full fiber glass body and carbon fiber hood probably won't make it to production, but how the heck is a car built on the platform of an existing car not close to meeting federal standards??? it doesn't take the time for companies to turn concept into reality anymore, the market dictates that.......all indications are that this car will go into production in 2007

instead of being so vague, how about some specifics?

Every interior component has to meet a stringent set of safety standards. For example, the regs on something as simple as an armrest fill a 6" thick binder. Seats, airbags, dashboards--even knee panels--are regulated to even higher degrees. Even dome lights have extensive regs.

The bodies are similarly regulated, particularly in areas like lighting and bumpers. However, the insurance companies drive a lot of the requirements for crash energy dissipation well beyond government standards. There are very few rules on the chassis.

In regards to the Challenger specifically, I misunderstood your reference it being base on the 300C, etc... You're right there, but the same argument could be used for the Camaro. However, I could argue that the Zeta platform is far more modular and will be more easily modified to the Camaro. Plus, it's relatively light weight and should be a performance monster with a very rigid and light body. It will take a lot to make the Challenger able to handle the forces that it will be subjected to. (Think subframe connectors or cross-braces--more likely a Challenger-specific unibody.)

Unfortunately, the Challenger, by resembling the 1970's version, will need to be seriously modified to accept 2007-mandated bumpers. The Camaro concept has them already.

Both cars totally suck in aerodynamics, particulary the Camaro. The bad thing is, the Challenger will likely float much easier and get squirrelly at high speeds--just like the old ones! The Camaro will float too, but probably not as much depending on what happens to the nose. These retro cars are throwing away 30+ years of top-notch fluid dynamics research. The 4th gen F-bodies will easily clean the clock of either new design--if provided with the same power.

I could go into more, but I'm too tired to think....long day at work dealing with all this stuff--and I don't like to bring work home. :)

thanks for the added info, i guess i don't understand how the ly could possibly be less modular when it is the host of the imperial and challenger concepts, plus the magnum, charger, and 300??

that plaform is already built to host 3 srt-8(450hp) vehicles, and as i said before the challenger will not be a "sports car"......as far as the bumpers are concerned, everyone said the same thing about the lx cars when the "pre-production" concepts came out, and the production versions look nearly identical...........i guess i don't see where the interior would be a big deal, seeing as how it will share many magnum/300 parts anyways.....

Not true, Just saw Good Morning America. They said that the all New Camaro was the highlight of the show. I have seen various shows which are pleased by the all new Camaro.

Not true, Just saw Good Morning America. They said that the all New Camaro was the highlight of the show. I have seen various shows which are pleased by the all new Camaro.

how can you tell someone a personal experience isn't true??? when i was there, the response to the challenger was waaaaay more positive than the response to the camaro.....that doesn't mean that the entire country thinks that way, but that's what i personally witnessed......heck, the detroit news readers actually voted the imperial the highlight of the show ahead of both muscle concepts....

That matches my observations at the show too, but I keep in mind that show audiences tend to be a bit out of the mainstream.

The new hot rod magazine has the camaro and challenger on the cover, with an article on each.......they state that the challenger is clearly closer to production(as in possible 07 for 08 model year) and that the camaro wouldn't be ready before 2009, pretty much going along with the same reasoning i used.....obviously they never engineered a concept vehicle for production and have no clue what they are looking at either, right?

If it wasnt for LS1tech, i would have no idea that there even was going to be a camaro concept. The challenger has been in a few diff magazines, around for a good amount of time. Could be that the the mopar crowd was out in force at the show, who knows?
olly