Automotive News, Media & Press - Looking for a Motor Trend article, Mustang vs Z28

My buddies were telling me about some motor trend article where they built up a few cars for the track among them were a 98 Z28 and a Mustang 5.0. They said they did all kinds of things to the cars, cammed both of them , lightened, whatever.

They said the 5.0 was running low 10s and the Z could barely cut 12s! WTF is up with this ? A cammed LS1 barely able to pull 12s just doesnt sound right at all to me ( on sticky tires no less )

So has anyone read this article ? Is there something I'm missing here?

Never seen it, but I wouldn't doubt it. I'm just surprised they didn't add a foreign car, get it running 15's with mods,then declare it the shootout winner b/c it had better "refinement, build quality and ergonomics".

lol there were other cars included , foreign ones as well, i just am curious what the hell these comparable mods are that they did to a LS1 Z28 and to a 5.0 that netted such strange results...

anyone........... ?

sorry motor trend can suck my cock after the boxter beat the z06 in a sports car test

I've had a motor trend subscription for the last 6 years and that article doesn't ring a bell.

sorry motor trend can suck my cock after the boxter beat the z06 in a sports car test

Are you fricking serious???

THAT'S why I cancelled my subscription in the late 90's. Why bother doing performance tests to come up numbers and shootouts when:

1. The numbers are almost always worse than your average driver can get

2. You ignore the numbers anyway and almost always declare the foreign/less performing car the winner based on SUBJECTIVE items

My buddies were telling me about some motor trend article where they built up a few cars for the track among them were a 98 Z28 and a Mustang 5.0. They said they did all kinds of things to the cars, cammed both of them , lightened, whatever.

They said the 5.0 was running low 10s and the Z could barely cut 12s! WTF is up with this ? A cammed LS1 barely able to pull 12s just doesnt sound right at all to me ( on sticky tires no less )

I'd call BS on this one. First of all, Motor Trend doing ANYTHING with a 5.0? Unlikely. Comparing an LS1 to a 5.0? Highly unlikely. The 5.0 outperforming the LS1 with what i'm sure they would try to make "comparable" mods? Impossible. Not that the 5.0 isn't a pretty damn good engine, but it's in a different ballpark than the LS1 in my mind.

I'd call BS on this one. First of all, Motor Trend doing ANYTHING with a 5.0? Unlikely. Comparing an LS1 to a 5.0? Highly unlikely. The 5.0 outperforming the LS1 with what i'm sure they would try to make "comparable" mods? Impossible. Not that the 5.0 isn't a pretty damn good engine, but it's in a different ballpark than the LS1 in my mind.

That was what I was thinking I was trying to keep an open mind and not put the LS1 on a pedestal... but I'm sorry a 5.0 is just not much of a competition for the LS1

I've never seen MT do a comparison of modified cars. I've seen articles on modified cars, but they are usually specialty cars, by Lingenfelter, Ruf, Dinan, etc. Also a 5.0 vs. an LS1 sounds wrong because those cars are what, 5 years apart? Might as well do a comparison test between a 72 455 TA and a 77 TA.

Well when my friends were telling me they made it sound like it was a budget buster type of build up. Which one can go faster cheaper, in that case I might believe the 5.0 just because the aftermarket is so gigantic... but I'm not even sure if 5.0 aftermarket parts are cheaper...

Well when my friends were telling me they made it sound like it was a budget buster type of build up. Which one can go faster cheaper, in that case I might believe the 5.0 just because the aftermarket is so gigantic... but I'm not even sure if 5.0 aftermarket parts are cheaper...

Ohh yeah 5.0 parts are cheaper. Big time.

Still, mod for mod, a 5.0 ain't gonna catch an LS1.

The most obvious evidence of BS in this case is the claim that Motor Trend did anything with a 5.0. MT would definetly use the 98+ 4.6 in a comparison like that. I'd be inclined to consider it if we were talking about Hot Rod Mag or something alone those lines, but not MT.

GM High Tech Performance had an issue with a 96 Cobra and 96 Camaro SS comparison.

MM&FF also had a comparison...
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/0208mmff_deathmatch/

CJ

sounds like your friends are just a bunch of mustang fans and are trying to rattle your cage. First off why would they pit a early 90s 5.0 against a 98z28? think about it. I've been reading motor trend for a while and I cant ever recall them modding a car.
cammed z28 barley getting 12s? lol must have had the stock cam then! 5.0 in the 10s (on all motor)? lol...must have been HEAVILY modded.

I know you can check out the Motor Trend website and search their archives.

I might know what you are talking about....but I don't think it was MT that did it. Are you referring to the Orange or Yellow Boss 5.0 that was modified and pitted against a modded Z28. That's pretty much all I remember about it though.

You're probably thinking about the infamous black ZL1 vs orange Boss Mustang comparo that Car and Driver did a few years back, not Motor Trend. John Coletti and the SVT boys threw together a bad ass 10 second Mustang backed by a 3 speed automatic and packing some huge cubes. John Moss and the GM guys origianlly built a 572 powered 4th gen backed by a 5 speed stick and at the last minute changed the motor for something even bigger. They ended up doing a strip run and a road course run. The Mustang owned the Camaro in a straight line by about a second (I believe the Mustang was into the 10s with the Camaro somewhere in the mid 11s) but the Camaro despite having major engine trouble as well as tranny problems ended up taking the Mustang on the road course. C&D called it a tie. It was nothing more than the big guns of each camps performance division fooling around and seeing who could throw up bigger numbers. A pretty good article IMO. It happened like 4 or 5 years ago IIRC.

FWIW Coletti and company used an SN95 body Mustang and not a Fox Body. However they used one of the earlier horizontal tailight models ('94-'95) that still packed the aging 5.0 in GT, Cobra and '95 only GTS trim which is why your friend might have said they used a "5.0" However this car had it's stock 5.0 replaced by something much nastier anyway.

The Mustang owned the Camaro in a straight line by about a second (I believe the Mustang was into the 10s with the Camaro somewhere in the mid 11s)
I think you got it backwards the camaro beat the mustang in the road course by 1 sec. Im pretty sure the drag race was within .1-.3 tenths because as i remember it they had to struggle to get the mustang to do its last run in the drag where it clicked off the best run of the day in the 1/4. i could be wrong but thats how i remeber it.

GM High Tech Performance had an issue with a 96 Cobra and 96 Camaro SS comparison.

MM&FF also had a comparison...
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/0208mmff_deathmatch/

CJ

Ok, anyone notice how stupid that article was? they were "being accused of being bias to the bow tie"? wtf, look at there name! and they went over the price of the SS but failed to look at the more expensive price of the cobra, and for the SS to only be 3 tenths from the cobra on the course is astounding to me, and ofcourse it whould be faster, its got a dam blower on it!! man these guys

You're probably thinking about the infamous black ZL1 vs orange Boss Mustang comparo that Car and Driver did a few years back, not Motor Trend. John Coletti and the SVT boys threw together a bad ass 10 second Mustang backed by a 3 speed automatic and packing some huge cubes. John Moss and the GM guys origianlly built a 572 powered 4th gen backed by a 5 speed stick and at the last minute changed the motor for something even bigger. They ended up doing a strip run and a road course run. The Mustang owned the Camaro in a straight line by about a second (I believe the Mustang was into the 10s with the Camaro somewhere in the mid 11s) but the Camaro despite having major engine trouble as well as tranny problems ended up taking the Mustang on the road course. C&D called it a tie. It was nothing more than the big guns of each camps performance division fooling around and seeing who could throw up bigger numbers. A pretty good article IMO. It happened like 4 or 5 years ago IIRC.

FWIW Coletti and company used an SN95 body Mustang and not a Fox Body. However they used one of the earlier horizontal tailight models ('94-'95) that still packed the aging 5.0 in GT, Cobra and '95 only GTS trim which is why your friend might have said they used a "5.0" However this car had it's stock 5.0 replaced by something much nastier anyway.

There must have been more than one of these matchups. I saw one on speedvision, and later found it on Road&Track's website. However it was a 2000(body) ZL-1 with a 572 and an LS1-style SFI intake, the car was black with a silver hood scoop. The Boss was a 2001 Stang body with a big block of a size I cannot remember. I know the ZL-1 was said to pack 825hp and the Boss supposedly had 790hp. The ZL-1 made three decent 10-sec passes, but the Boss never finished a run. First run it shattered the rear, second run (with new beefier rear) it broke a pushrod. Then they gave up.

That's the only one i've seen, but I think it's an ongoing matchup.

I think you got it backwards the camaro beat the mustang in the road course by 1 sec. Im pretty sure the drag race was within .1-.3 tenths because as i remember it they had to struggle to get the mustang to do its last run in the drag where it clicked off the best run of the day in the 1/4. i could be wrong but thats how i remeber it.


No actually I don't have it backwards but I did forget to mention that like the Camaro, the Mustang also imploded upon itself. In the C/D comparo it was declared a tie because the Mustang won at the strip, and the Camaro on the road course. They did NOT have to struggle with the Mustang. It has fairly consistent with it's 3 speed automatic. Much more so than the Camaro and it's 5 speed manual. On top of that the Camaro did in fact need repairs at the strip due to a broken rear end. The GM guys supposedly found replacement parts in the area where they were conducting tests. However I could be wrong but I think the Mustang may not have even finished the road course due to an oil pump failure as well as bent valves IIRC. This may be how the Camaro was able to take the Mustang on the road course despite the fact that all 5 of it's forward gears weren't exactly working properly.

FWIW, the Camaro supposedly ran a 9.5 1/4 a few years later, but that was on full slicks. On top of that, during the comparo, the Camaro was slightly more limited in terms of what width of tire could be stuffed under the fender. I believe the Mustang guys were able to get more tire under the rear fenders. Regardless, the Camaro got owned at the strip DURING THE COMPARISON. The numbers for the cars WHICH THEY ACTUALLY RAN DURING THE COMPARO EXCEPT FOR ONE EXCEPTION MENTIONED BELOW were as follows.

1994 Boss Mustang:
598cid V8 (9.8L)
855bhp/794lb-ft
0-60= 1.9sec
1/4mile=10.55 @135.05mph

2000 Camaro ZL1
572cid V8 (9.4L)
775bhp/683ft-lbs
0-60= 3.0sec
1/4 mile=11.01 @128.64mph.

THERE IS ONE EXCEPTION

At the last minute, John Moss an company swapped out the GM ZL1 572 motor for a Merlin block. However despite the 11th hour swap, the Camaro still couldn't keep up with the Mustang in a straight line so in the end it never really mattered. During the test, the Camaro was running the Merlin V8, NOT A MODDED GM 572 ZL1 ENGINE. I forget why, but they either fucked up the original motor, or Moss got scared at the last minute.

Regardless, the Mustang won the drag race.


There must have been more than one of these matchups. I saw one on speedvision, and later found it on Road&Track's website. However it was a 2000(body) ZL-1 with a 572 and an LS1-style SFI intake, the car was black with a silver hood scoop. The Boss was a 2001 Stang body with a big block of a size I cannot remember. I know the ZL-1 was said to pack 825hp and the Boss supposedly had 790hp. The ZL-1 made three decent 10-sec passes, but the Boss never finished a run. First run it shattered the rear, second run (with new beefier rear) it broke a pushrod. Then they gave up.

That's the only one i've seen, but I think it's an ongoing matchup.


The SVT Built car was a '94, NOT an '01. You're thinking of something else. The '94 Boss and the '00 ZL1 were THE pet projects of both companie's performance gurus. These two rides are what they brought to the table. This is THE comparo everyone talks about when they refer to the infamous ZL1 vs. Boss battle of 2000.

ZL1:

http://www.supercars.net/cars/2000@$Chevrolet@$Camaro%20ZL1%20Conceptg.html

Boss:

http://www.svt.ford.com/conceptLabBoss.asp

Boss Tech Specs:

http://www.svt.ford.com/download/conceptLabPDF/SVEBossMustang.pdf



Regardless of all this, both the Ford and Chevy IIRC went home with 0 oil pressure. The Stang was definitely built to tackle just a drag strip whereas GM built the ZL1 to tackle a road course as well. Hence the reason the Boss showed up with a 3 speed automatic compared to the Camaros 5 speed manual. A few years later, the ZL1 ended up running a 9.55 which bested the 10.55 posted by the Boss a few years earlier but so what. During the test, the Mustang won the drag race but didn't survive to make it to the road course. The Camaro almost died at the strip and lost to the Mustang, but it was able to limp around the road course to even things up. All in all as C/D said back in 2000, it ended in a tie.

The SVT Built car was a '94, NOT an '01. You're thinking of something else. The '94 Boss and the '00 ZL1 were THE pet projects of both companie's performance gurus. These two rides are what they brought to the table. This is THE comparo everyone talks about when they refer to the infamous ZL1 vs. Boss battle of 2000.

I AM thinking of something else. I said that.

The cars in the one I saw were a 2000 Camaro body and a 2001 Stang body. The "ZL-1" was black with a silver scoop and the "Boss" was Black with silver graphics. Both Moss and Coletti were in the matchup. I saw it on speedvision, on a sunday night in august of 03. I know this because I had just returned from vacation that day. Not that it matters, because knowing speedvision, it was probably a repeat anway.

I figured perhaps they just tried the matchup again. Moss did say "this time we added an SFI setup to our 572". I can't say for sure what the deal was, so I only talk about what I am sure about.

Wow, I thought this thread died a while ago, seems like this article was nothing more than two car companies clashing....

My buddies were trying to make it seem like the LS1 was a worthless motor, but I know that isnt true... and there wasnt anywhere near an LS1 in any of these articles...

Thanks guys!

They said the 5.0 was running low 10s and the Z could barely cut 12s! WTF is up with this ? A cammed LS1 barely able to pull 12s just doesnt sound right at all to me ( on sticky tires no less )

So has anyone read this article ? Is there something I'm missing here?

Yeah your friends forgot to tell you that they pulled everything but the frame out of the 5.0, had the Z28 tow it halfway down the track, then do a U-turn, cut the cord, and slam on its brakes so that the momentum would fling the 5.0 the rest of the way.

The Z28 then had to start back up and finish the last half of the track.