Automotive News, Media & Press - Pontiac: Soul Survivor or just Dust in the Wind?




TriShield
03-02-2006, 12:16 AM
http://www.autoextremist.com/rantscap.gif by Peter M. DeLorenzo
Issue 336, March 1, 2006

The legendary Pontiac names alone could power a rollcall from Detroit's golden era - Bonneville, Catalina, Tempest, Le Mans, GTO, "The Judge," Grand Prix, Firebird and Trans-Am. The rich additions to the automotive lexicon were legendary too - "389," "421," "455SD," "Tri-Power," "eight-lug" aluminum wheels, Royal Bobcats, "Endura" front bumpers, hood-mounted tachs, and on and on. And the marketing and advertising hooks were equally memorable - with the famous "Wide Track" campaign still resonating to this day. But Pontiac has suffered from neglect and abuse for years, and now GM's maverick division is on the edge of oblivion.

With the departure by next fall of the recently returned GTO, Pontiac will be left with only one car that even remotely resembles their swashbuckling cars of the past - the Solstice two-seat roadster. The G6 is far too tame to carry Pontiac forward on its own, and everything else Pontiac has to offer - the Torrent (which is a badge-engineered Chevy Equinox) and the upcoming G5 (which will be a badge-engineered version of the Chevy Cobalt) - is too mundane to even ponder.

Pontiac has suffered mightily from the bureaucratic gravitational force field that has churned and stirred the traditional GM divisional structure over the years. While GM marketers scrambled to prop up seven other brands, Pontiac always seemed to be left out on the fringe with product initiatives that often fell woefully short of what the brand deserved. After resurrecting Cadillac to the tune of $5 billion, GM marketers launched Hummer. After dumping a boatload of money in a desperate attempt to save Saturn a few years ago, GM finally got around to worrying about Chevrolet. While GM is trying to pump life into Saab and Buick, Pontiac is left to fight over crumbs for its product plans. Now, GM's launching the most aggressive new product push in Saturn's history - and Pontiac finds itself left out in the cold again.

For every dollar that was thrown at Saturn, Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, GMC and Saab over the years - Pontiac got short changed and got further and further removed from its core strengths. GM's maverick division has now been reduced to picking up scraps from Chevy's product lineup and wallowing in such "smoke-and-mirrors" marketing exercises like the dismally tedious "Apprentice" TV show, featuring America's poster boy for vacuous vapidity - Donald Trump. Or underwriting Jimmy Kimmel's show while it was here during the Super Bowl, which provided a real boost to the Pontiac image. Not.

Where did GM go wrong with Pontiac? I could fill a dozen issues of Autoextremist.com delineating the division's downfall, but as someone who was intimately familiar with Pontiac's last brief fling with positive notoriety during its "Excitement" years (I was a writer at Pontiac's ad agency for five-and-one-half years in the early '80s), it pains me to see the downward spiral of one of America's most compelling automotive brand names.

It's clear to me that GM's struggle to apportion product and marketing attention to all of its divisions is killing the company - and unfortunately, Pontiac finds itself closest to the door at this point. Until GM's "too many models, too many divisions" situation is somehow mitigated (which I doubt will ever happen unless GM blows itself up and starts over), I fear for the long-term viability of Pontiac.

To understand the travesty of Pontiac's current state you have to go back and understand the impact Pontiac once had on the U.S. market. It's hard to believe this now but at one point during its glory days in the '60s Pontiac was the hottest car company in the country, breathing down Ford's neck in third place in sales. If ever a car company defined "swagger" - Pontiac was it. Pontiac was GM's "pirate" division, and if they could have raised a "skull and crossbones" flag over its headquarters in its heyday, they would have. On any given day, Pontiac was always pissing someone off down at GM headquarters because they just couldn't help themselves from bitch-slapping Chevrolet and sending Chevy executives whining to the 14th floor like little school girls over some perceived transgression.

Starting with Bunkie Knudsen, Pontiac pushed the envelope and marched to a different drummer. Pontiac tweaked their cars to the point that they didn't even seem like they were part of the GM family. More than any other American car company, Pontiac delivered cars to the market bristling with a maverick, rebel attitude, edgy appeal and genuine soul - a commodity so far removed from most of Detroit's products today it's appalling. The street "buzz" around Pontiac was undeniable - and it was fueled by some of the most memorable advertising ever done for an automobile. For one fleeting moment in time, product and advertising came together in such a way that it created an American sensation. If you drove a Pontiac, it definitely said something about you. You were different from the crowd and you went your own way. And the aura that was created around the brand translated into gold in the marketplace, sending Pontiac sales soaring.

Now, Pontiac is a mere shadow of its once glorious self. Except for the Solstice, it has been relegated to cribbing seconds from Chevrolet - a revolting development that must have Bunkie Knudsen and John DeLorean spinning in their graves. To top it off, even the Solstice won't exclusively be left to Pontiac, because the upcoming Saturn Sky will add to the confusion and leave Pontiac grasping for footing in the market again.

The fact that Pontiac's most recent downward spiral was hastened by famed product guru Bob Lutz might be a surprise to some people, but that's exactly what happened. Maximum Bob's "read" of what Pontiac should stand for in the market was totally off base. He has always fancied Pontiac as GM's "euro" division, a cut-rate BMW for the people who couldn't afford BMWs. And that simply couldn't be further removed from what Pontiac was and should be. That might more closely describe where Saturn is going, but it certainly isn't Pontiac. If any car appealed to the all-American maverick spirit and to the wide-open American attitude, Pontiac was it - and confusing the whole thing with European driving sensibilities is a monumental waste of time. The pure essence of Pontiac was there for all to see, but the current stewards of the brand either forgot it - or never did have a clue to begin with.

Pontiac is on thin ice right now. With the next-generation Firebird slated for late 2008 as a 2009 model, what the hell are they going to do in the meantime? How many different variations of the Solstice and the G6 can they do? And who's going to notice the G5? Pontiac is supposed to get a RWD car (along with Chevy, natch) that could be the new Grand Prix, but I'm looking at my watch and right now the 2008/2009 time frame sounds like an eternity in this market.

GM can go two ways with Pontiac at this critical juncture. They can keep starving it to death with brand engineering and clone cars, or they can start over with an all-new mission that adheres to the core essence of what a Pontiac was - and should be.

It shouldn't be hard. All it would take is a total commitment from GM and the right people in place to make it all happen. But then again, those two key ingredients are the two things necessary in bringing focused, desirable products to the street no matter which company we're talking about.

Back in '81, I did a print ad for the Firebird Trans-Am that had the headline, "Soul Survivor." That ad set the tone for the "excitement" era that followed and started Pontiac on its way back. But Pontiac has unfortunately careened in and out of relevance ever since.

The time is now for Pontiac. The division deserves better. Much better. GM needs to get in touch with the essence and soul of Pontiac and put it on a plan not only for survival - but for revival. If done exactly right, Pontiac's marching to a different drummer persona could have tremendous appeal today in this market of vanilla Asian transportation appliances and German techno-wonders. And if GM can't muster the will to do the right thing with one of America's most famous automotive nameplates, then they might as well just take it out back and put it out of its misery.

I'd rather see that than watch it fade away like dust in the wind.

Thanks for listening, see you next Wednesday.

http://www.autoextremist.com/mastheadbluechillerbig.gif


TriShield
03-02-2006, 12:22 AM
He's exactly right and makes the same points I've been making about GM for a long time, they're being crushed under all their brand names and as a result the entire company suffers. They can't afford to properly run their antiquated empire of names.

I vote to put a bullet in Pontiac's head, they can do Buick while they're at it too. With the way they have been handled the past few years, there's really no point to wasting so much of GM's precious resources on them. Especially when they have no idea what they are doing.

If anything, Dodge currently reminds me more of what Pontiac was in it's heyday than Pontiac does now.

WECIV
03-02-2006, 01:21 AM
Chevy sells cars, Caddy sells really nice cars, and GM sells trucks...Or that is how it should be. And give Chevy a 3 series competitor!!!


slick1851
03-02-2006, 03:11 AM
Just Kill off buick why are they still putting money into them at all?!!!!!!

GM is crap now when it comes to nice cars, sure LS7s and LS9s whatever are nice. But can you honestly compare any GM car to a bimmer or Benz? Only thing that is close is caddy. They have finally opened there eyes and put life into it, but still GM doesnt need new modles. THEY NEED A WHORE NEW STAFF AND NEW PEOPLE TO COME IN AND MAKE THINGS WORK@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

flyin red TA
03-02-2006, 04:14 AM
yeah, we need more whores to work for us...that's the ticket.

demonspeed
03-02-2006, 07:25 AM
I say goodbye Buick Pontiac and GMC. You want a luxury truck or SUV? Forget the Denali and get a Cadillac. You want a cheap roadster? Get a Sky. You want a sports car? Get a Vette.

I'm no professional at figuring this kinda stuff out, but who buys Buicks? Old people. Who needs 2 different choices in trucks that are exactly the same except for a badge? What's the point of 4 of the same minivans (SV6, Terraza, Uplander, RELAY) and 3 of the same compact suv's (VUE, Equinox, Torrent)? What about 3 compacts (ION, Cobalt, G5?).

lawngsx
03-02-2006, 09:39 AM
And this is why Pontiac will be gone in a few years.

badjuju342
03-02-2006, 10:33 AM
Sad to see the division of GM that started the musclecar era gets treatment like this. Pontiac deserves better.

J E T
03-02-2006, 11:20 AM
I say goodbye Buick Pontiac and GMC. You want a luxury truck or SUV? Forget the Denali and get a Cadillac. You want a cheap roadster? Get a Sky. You want a sports car? Get a Vette.

I'm no professional at figuring this kinda stuff out, but who buys Buicks? Old people. Who needs 2 different choices in trucks that are exactly the same except for a badge? What's the point of 4 of the same minivans (SV6, Terraza, Uplander, RELAY) and 3 of the same compact suv's (VUE, Equinox, Torrent)? What about 3 compacts (ION, Cobalt, G5?).

I agree. I never really got why GMC was even in the mix. They offered the same exact cars that Chevy did but with different badging/names. The Yukon is the Tahoe. The Sonoma was the S10. The Sierra is the Silverado. The Envoy is the TrailBlazer. The Jimmy was the Blazer. The Canyon is the Colorado. The Savana is the Express. I just never really got it, because GMC is a waste of a division, when the money going into it could have been helping Pontiac. I would hate to see Pontiac go...I would rather see Buick and GMC go before Pontiac. I was sorta sad to see Oldsmobile go a few years ago, but it had to. And now I hope Buick and GMC goes. That would leave GM with Cadillac, Chevy, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab and Saturn. Buick, GMC and Oldsmobile flushed down the drain.

Chris95Z
03-02-2006, 02:31 PM
i agree and I might be inclined to drop hummer, with crude oil prices as high as they are, gas is expensive for us consumers and I think many middle class suv buying families simply aren't going to favor a full sized suv. This is just speculation but it doesn't seem SUV's are too pupular at the moment. On a similar note, cars such as the cobalt ss/ion redline , sky, and solstice need more hp They are neat little cars don't get me wrong but with the cobalt/reline especially, hell chrysler has an oogly googly srt4 thing coming out with more go, if they(gm's) had a consistent high 200 low 300 hp figure, it would help sell them i think. GM does seem like it's a wreck and drasticchanges do need to be made to help this corporation do better.

technical
03-02-2006, 03:02 PM
It's a damn shame that Pontiac has been relegated to it's current hand-me-down status. I've been saying for a little while now (15 years) the biggest problem facing Pontiac, Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, et al. is GM itself.

Lt1FBoDy209
03-02-2006, 04:15 PM
Chevy sells cars, Caddy sells really nice cars, and GM sells trucks...Or that is how it should be. And give Chevy a 3 series competitor!!!

word to that my friend.

kaptain cap
03-02-2006, 06:11 PM
A new GTO has been confirmed

"Lutz confirmed that the GTO was “only ever off for two months, but that break has enabled us to get a more feasible program up.” The program he points to is General Motors’ Zeta rear-wheel-drive platform, which is being developed by Holden in Australia and set to underpin the new-generation Commodore due to be launched in August.

Besides Camaro and GTO, other models set to be based on the Zeta platform are upcoming replacements for the Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo, and a new car called the Buick Statesman, according to Lutz."

- http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060302/FREE/60302001/1039

Wnts2Go10O
03-02-2006, 06:23 PM
bob lutz must die for gm to get out of its own shit hole

kaptain cap
03-02-2006, 06:25 PM
I What's the point of 4 of the same minivans (SV6, Terraza, Uplander, RELAY)

I agree, but the SV6 will be dropped.

Pontiac will get Cobalt-based entry-level coupe, lose Montana (SV6) minivan

By JAMIE LAREAU | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

2/12//06

Detroit - General Motors will give Pontiac an entry-level coupe as a stopgap measure until the division gets more brand-focused products, sources close to Pontiac say. In the process, Pontiac dealers will lose the Montana SV6 minivan.

The coupe will be a high-performance relative of the Chevrolet Cobalt coupe with some Pontiac influences. The vehicle will give the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel a shot at the small-car market, a source close to GM says. GM is still considering names for it. One option might be the G5, sources say.

Pontiac intends to launch the coupe as a 2007 model and likely will start production this fall in Lordstown, Ohio.

The car will be priced similarly to the Chevrolet Cobalt SS supercharged coupe, which starts at $20,490, including shipping.

Pontiac eventually will lose the Montana SV6 minivan, which has seen sluggish sales and does not fit Pontiac's performance-brand image, sources say. U.S. sales of the SV6 for January fell to 1,450 units, an 11.5 percent drop from 1,638 in the year-ago period.

Pontiac has lacked an entry-level car since the Sunfire died last year.

TriShield
03-02-2006, 09:59 PM
I say goodbye Buick Pontiac and GMC. You want a luxury truck or SUV? Forget the Denali and get a Cadillac. You want a cheap roadster? Get a Sky. You want a sports car? Get a Vette.


And without these brands they would have more resources to make better Cadillacs and Chevrolets, which would cover everything really.

Right now each brand has one, maybe two average cars. That's not a recipe for success. All the successful automakers have two to three lines of really good cars. GM has numerous lines of mediocre cars, it's no wonder they're in a mess.

WECIV
03-03-2006, 12:35 AM
Trishield put it best...place all your money in Caddy and Chevy and boom you have the money to make the best cars possible and sell them at a decent price. Having GM as a seperate entity would create a situation where one company could R&D the best possible trucks and SUV's.

demonspeed
03-03-2006, 07:30 AM
Pontiac eventually will lose the Montana SV6 minivan, which has seen sluggish sales and does not fit Pontiac's performance-brand image

Oh, and the Torrent and Vibe does fit this image?

And without these brands they would have more resources to make better Cadillacs and Chevrolets, which would cover everything really.

Right now each brand has one, maybe two average cars. That's not a recipe for success. All the successful automakers have two to three lines of really good cars. GM has numerous lines of mediocre cars, it's no wonder they're in a mess.

Bingo. I just don't understand their philosophy on keeping these brands alive. I mean, people are getting paid lots of money to do this kind of thinking and decision making, so what is it that is keeping them going? We can sit online here and figure this out. There must be something we don't understand or know about.

The only thing I can think of is they are afraid they will lose loyalists - or else it's the UAW.

Oh, and another thing... What is the deal with letting Isuzu rebadge the Ascender and I-series trucks only to set them up to undercut their GM counterparts while offering a better warranty? WTF is up with that???

TriShield
03-03-2006, 08:15 AM
Bingo. I just don't understand their philosophy on keeping these brands alive.

I think the huge dealer bodies are the main reason they're still around. They all have franchise agreements and that's probably what makes phasing out a brand name the trickiest.

Toyota only has to feed 1,400 or so US dealers with three brand names while GM has around 7,000 dealers and eight brand names. That's the legacy of being the automotive pioneer for a century and being too big an empire to react to the changing market fast enough.

demonspeed
03-03-2006, 09:09 AM
This is true. Well, with as much money as they put out to healthcare, what's a little more money for severance to the dealers :)

TriShield
03-03-2006, 06:41 PM
This is true. Well, with as much money as they put out to healthcare, what's a little more money for severance to the dealers :)

98% of Olds dealers took the package GM offered them. :chug:

demonspeed
03-04-2006, 09:03 PM
With a little bit of thought...

Kill Buick Ponitac GMC.

Cadillac and Hummer dealers should unit (like they did with B/P/GMC).

Keep Chevrolet and Saturn growing in the directions they are going.

As for Saab... well, I have no clue what to say about them! Maybe sell them to Isuzu or something and tell both Saab and Isuzu to go make their own vehicles! ;)

pushinfreight
03-05-2006, 12:27 PM
Hell no do not kill Pontiac, just make it what it should be. The bad boy of the automotive world and start kicking the competition in the nuts. The TA at least has some lines on the car to give it style and character. I am so sick and tired of all the bubble shapes. Cloning cars across lines just adds to costs. In this day if you are going to clone the car what is the point. Just let the buyer choose the body package that they want to order. GMC and Buick have no style or origanality. Kill them off ramp up the production on the other brands and lower the dam prices. The office politics at GM can kiss my ass. You hear what people want and know what it will take to get the job done. Find a way to do it. I am asked that every day at work and it gets done. Stop putting car out there like the SSR, heavy with no motor and was supposed to be the stop gap till the GTO, the GTO comes out with the wrong motor at first then gets an up grade ect..... How the hell can a company that puts out the Vette and get it so right also put out so much crap. Yes the Vette is a chevy but GM is the parrent. Hard choices suck but they need to be made. I know that this is a real rant but until they invent a time machine and I can go back to the 60's and enjoy the birth muscle cars I am just going to have to throw a fit on what the people at GM are doing. Hell they have pissed me off enough that I bought a Titan instead of Chevy.

demonspeed
03-05-2006, 12:35 PM
Cloning cars across lines just adds to costs. In this day if you are going to clone the car what is the point.

Which is why Pontiac (and the other two) should meet up with Oldsmobile and have a shindig.

LTSpeed
03-05-2006, 01:28 PM
GM doesn't build any vehicle that I find appealing enough to even go to a lot and check out--except the Z06. Why'd they buy up all those losing brands anyway? It doesn't matter how cool a design they come up with at this point, because while they're bringing it to market, there's some idiot drawing up another ridiculous business venture in the background that will blow all the profits they might make anyway. They have institutionalized stupid business decisions and their only out is to go bankrupt to clean things out. Then they can build it back up right next time. Hey, it worked for Chrysler--to a point.

technical
03-05-2006, 07:37 PM
GM should lose the "move product" mentality and start building more cars that people get excited over. (sort of obvious...) I got a good look at the Pontiac Torrent and couldn't believe how little they changed from the Equinox. The big three have been doing this for years, but they usually made the cars that shared platforms somewhat discernable. Now they just change the emblem... It's like they aren't even trying anymore. :(

sdm1234
03-21-2006, 11:40 PM
Pontiac just needs something appealing. The new GTO was a true musclecar, but who wants a musclecar anymore? That's the exact reason why the Firebird/Camaro dropped. I highly doubt a "sporty" Solstice will carry Pontiac through the storm... What Pontiac needs is something out-of-the-box. Look at what Ford did with the Mustang. That saved Ford's ass. Now GM needs something to save their ass. This new Camaro is good and all, but I still don't think it's good enough. Yes, it's flashy, but it doesn't do too much justice to the Camaro name. You know people will only buy it because of the name "Camaro" and not because of the performance or looks. Ford got it right with the new Mustang. Even GIRLS like them because of it's hot body-lines! In my opinion, Pontiac and the Corvette are the ONLY things holding GM. The Corvette can't last much longer, so it's up to Pontiac at this point. How about... a new Fiero??? Think about it. A Mid-Engine, 2-Seater Sports Car. It will save Pontiac, which in turn, will save GM.

Nick04
03-22-2006, 12:28 AM
^^^ The way i look at it, the Solstice is the "new Fiero" you speak of. It's actually one of the better GM products.

RDISADEIFAN
03-23-2006, 06:52 AM
Buicks are good cars, you need to keep those around for the aging public who can not afford a Caddy.GM just needs to cut down on costs and bring in car people will buy with no incentives. If they could bring in some sharp looking cars that they have in Europe and from down under,it will put them on track.

ryant430
03-23-2006, 05:37 PM
Buick makes great vehicles, their quality standards and build restrictions are actually higher then that of many rivals companies.

here is a link but for the lazy peeps http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2006-01-26-lucerne_x.htm

here it is-

To properly regard Lucerne, we need to address three prejudices.

• Detroit models have inferior quality.

Get over that one, folks, especially in this case. Buick outscores Toyota, Honda and some other highly regarded brands in J.D. Power and Associates' surveys.

Power's 2005 tally of things gone wrong the first 90 days of ownership showed the Buick brand was fourth, behind Lexus, Jaguar and BMW and ahead of Cadillac, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota.

Buick also places fourth in Power's 2005 study of problems with 3-year-old vehicles behind Lexus, Porsche and Lincoln.

• Toyota can do no wrong.

Get over that one, too. The 2005 Avalon was recalled last year, its first on the market, because somebody forgot to weld the steering mechanism together on some cars, meaning the driver might not be able to steer, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

The auto industry, in its frenzy of cost-cutting that's become corner-cutting, has sunk back into the first-year bugs of the old days, so Lucerne could have some teething problems, too. So far, though, NHTSA files show no complaints, investigations or recalls involving Lucerne, on sale since October.

• Buicks are fogey cars.

Man, are you out of touch. No, Buick's not a young, hip brand like Scion. But it has a high-performance heritage that is decades old and is being renewed in Lucerne. There's even a sports Lucerne model, CXS, that has bigger wheels, tires and brakes than the others and a firmer suspension for more agile handling.

TriShield
03-23-2006, 06:21 PM
It sounds like the guy who writes AutoExtremist.com has been offered a very high job at GM to help turn things around.

Dan
03-23-2006, 10:10 PM
^^^ The way i look at it, the Solstice is the "new Fiero" you speak of. It's actually one of the better GM products.

I saw an advertisement for a Soltice priced at 34k, Is this normal? Are the Dealershits Gouging?

Pontiacdreamin
03-24-2006, 02:06 PM
I saw an advertisement for a Soltice priced at 34k, Is this normal? Are the Dealershits Gouging?
i think they top out at like 27-28 fully loaded.

DubyaSsixTA
04-14-2006, 09:09 AM
Yeah, Buicks are very reliable cars (I have relatives with a few), but depending on how well they actually sell, GM might need to kill them off. I was reading somewhere that GM had its positioned as follows (this was a few years ago obviously): Chevrolet>Oldsmobile>Buick>Cadillac, Pontiac the sporty division, GMC the truck division, Saturn the econobox division. I think this worked back in the day and such, but not today. Maybe killing off buick and gmc and funding the other major divisions would help, but then again I don't know the internal/opportunity costs of sales/killing off and the pros and cons of each of a project that size just speculation.