Stereo & Electronics - 4th gen Sound Quality Audiophiles come in!

This is for all those who are into high sound quality. I am interested in how some of you who are really picky about their aftermarket stereo sound quality, have chosen your speaker sizes and types (components, tweeters, etc), the placement and positioning in the car, what frequency ranges you run through each speaker/sub, and anything else.

I started with the 99 factory monsoon which I didn't care for since it distorted at high volumes. Then I got an aftermarket setup which was great for many cds, but would drone during some godsmack cds. Some really heavier hardcore metal I listen to, I just can't hear some of the frequencies as well and you can't really hear how good the song is. I can't hear any piano or keyboard in songs most of the time. I think the factory monsoon setup would have been better for this missing frequency problem.

This setup I had was the following:
6 1/2 3way infinity kappas front door and rear passenger next to head (so four of those speakers)
These ran off of a pioneer 7300.
Stealthbox .9 cubic feet with Edesign 12 inch sub using 400 watts on it (not enough info I know but I feel good about the sub)

I guess I'm not as much concerned about the brand of speakers you use, but more on the size, 2 way, 3way, component, locations used, positioning, did you use separate mid-bass, what frequency ranges do you run, do you use a separate amp for speakers, etc?

I would like to see responses from people who have tried different setups in the 4th gen and are picky about sound quality. Can you please describe why you liked certain setups better than others you have tried?

Thanks :)

I used a focal utopia 6.5 setup in the front no rears at all and ran them on big PPI for lots of clean power and one twelve in a large ported box sounds good and rocks hard and does not take up much space. I work at a local stereo shop so I tried a few before settling on this. Oh i have an eclipse 8051 headunit.

Here's the thing. I'm currently trying front 3 way kappas only in the door speakers and I don't like it. I feel like those frequencies are only coming from the front and that theres sound missing in the rear. Now is there a difference between having only front 3 ways and only front components which are probably amped?

2 way components usually sound better than coaxials or 3 ways, I see no need for 3 way or 4 way 6 1/2" speakers. Just a bunch of extra unnessesary tweeters. Although I have 3 way rockford fosgate in the doors, the memphis audio coaxials I had before sounded better IMO. Reason I'm not using them is because the tweeter on one of them went bad, but with about 50 watts RMS going to them, those things can scream!! The next set I get will probably get will be a high end set of Memphis Audio components.

2 way components usually sound better than coaxials or 3 ways, I see no need for 3 way or 4 way 6 1/2" speakers. Just a bunch of extra unnessesary tweeters. Although I have 3 way rockford fosgate in the doors, the memphis audio coaxials I had before sounded better IMO. Reason I'm not using them is because the tweeter on one of them went bad, but with about 50 watts RMS going to them, those things can scream!! The next set I get will probably get will be a high end set of Memphis Audio components.

uhhh, there are many advantages to a 3 way component system over a traditional 2 way, the biggest being that there is a very tough transition in the 3-5khz range from the mid to the tweeter with most 2 ways. of course, this is not such a large deal if you go with a smaller mid, but then you will often lose some of the low end extension as well. 3 ways are very valuable, particularly in car audio.

ok, how crazy do you want to get ? Keep in mind my comments apply to the totally insane audiophiles who would settle for nothing less then perfection. The "average" nice sounding system doesn't need to go anywhere near this far.

I've totally given up on door mounted speakers, including midbass. The door is just too flimsy to provide a good enclosure and mounting surface... I've got 4 layers of dynamat extreme on the door skin, and a few layers on the inner frame, as well as a fiberglassed 3" thick mdf speaker mounting ring. This was when I tried using 8" JL subs in the doors. It sounded very nice, don't get me wrong, just had issues with minor vibrations pulling your attention to the door.

Kickpanels are the only way to go! But not the plastic ones. I'm talking fiberglassing a heavy mounting surface directly to the sheet metal of the car. Depending on the speaker being used, depends on if it's best to go sealed, free-air, etc ... There's not much room to go sealed, unless you want to go into the wheel well and build steel or fiberglass enclosures through the firewall (which is the route I've taken). With creative sheet metal cutting and fiberglassing, you can get your enclosure size to about .4 cu ft without having your tires rub them. But back to free-air... Couple your kickpanel to the opening for the door hinge bolts. Stuff it with poly fill, and make sure your kickpanel couples to that opening, and sealed around all other edges.. This will make a free-air enclosure that vents into the frame rails of the car. Works very nice.

tweeters... for a daily driver system that you are not too picky on, tweeters mounted in the a-pillars give nice stage height, and ok imaging.

But ok is not great, so for the next level of performance, kickpanel mounted tweeters are the way to go. Keeping the mid and tweeter closer sharpens your imaging and tonality.

as for choice in speakers, I'm running a paper cone pro-sound JBL 6 1/2" midrange. It's light and efficient, and plays from the tweeter crossover point of 3000hz all the way down to 40hz to blend in with my subs. It's a very versital driver. It's the midbass driver from this speaker:
http://www.jblsynthesis.com/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=S2ML&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA

Now, you can get the best speakers, mount them as far and out as possible, but you still have one big obstacle most people never bother trying to overcome.. that's the interior and it's effect on sound.

In our cars, you have 2 big obstacles.
1- the large reflective surface of the winshield. Can't do anything about this one.

2 - the dash. It's huge. It hangs low, comes out far, and is full of uneven surfaces for sound to reflect off of.
I built a custom dash that comes off the floor about 3" higher, and comes out 2" shallower, and is overall a smoother transition then the stocker.


I have a bunch of build pics on my site, www.djsexay.com.

feel free to email me at mike at djsexay.com if you have more questions..

mike

Mike, Long time no see. I see you have finally "finished" the car for the time being. :) Z28bryan, Mike's car is simply the epitome of all f-body sound systems, and is quite extreme. The concepts that he's posted about are quite valid, and i've dealt with most of them with my install. I believe when you say the word "3-way" regarding your Infinitys, you are referring to a coaxial speaker correct? Coaxial speakers theoretically are the best way to go, as the tweeter and midrange are radiating from the same point, however most coaxials are made of poor or cheap components. The best sound will be achieved with a 3-way component system (8" midbass in door, 6.5" midrange and tweeter in kick). Good component systems (where the individual speakers are seperate, compared to coaxials) are usually made from beefier components, and allow the freedom to place each speaker where it sounds best. This is important for sound quality since each car is different because of the different amounts and locations of glass, leather carpet, etc. in the interior. The best spots for a midbass are either in the stock location in the doors, or in a custom kickpanel. Usually the door locations are used, since making room for a 7" or 8" midbass in a kick panel while still keeping space for a midrange requires serious modifications (welding, etc.). Midranges should always go in kickpanel locations due to the ear being very sensitive to these frequencies. You want the pathlengths between each of your ears and the midranges to be as equal as possible so the sound arrives from left and right at about the same time. Kickpanel mounting is the best possible place for this to happen. Tweeters, well I think that is subjective to the listener. The most popular places for tweeter mounting is low on the a-pillars, or in the kickpanel (as DJ {Mike} said). You do want to get them as close to the mids as possible. I am 6'4" tall, and when I tried kickpanel mounted tweeters, I kept blocking the tweeter with my knee, and the effect was worse as my knee moved up and down as I operated the clutch. So I went to the next best location- the a pillars. Subwoofers work great in the hatch. Because of the natural cabin gain of a hatchback design, you can get tremendous bass from single subwoofers mounted back there. A single 10" or 12" in the storage compartment is all you need. Make sure it is crossed over low (60-80Hz @ 12-24dB/Oct) and all interior buzzes and rattles are silenced to achieve the "bass up front" effect.
You probably feel like your'e missing sound from the rear because you are missing midbass from your 3-way coaxials. I find midbass is like a good seasoning. The food may be good, but if there is no seasoning it makes the meal feel incomplete. hope I could be of help.

Wow, there's so many choices to choose from. You can spend some money for sure. I agree with Mike, not much bass from the door. It's the way it is.

I went with kicker ss 65.2's in the back and have a hole seperate for the tweeters. I put in the kicker ss 65.2s in the front as well.

I bought the kick panels and put in kicker ss56.2s. I wanted allot of highs.

I am running 2 15" kicker L7s. No need to worry about bass. More than enough for sure. I did give up the slot for the t-tops, but I'd rather have more bass. Just a personal thing. I love clean hard hitting bass aswell as having the audio sounding perfect. I thought about going with a set of tweets up in the dash somewhere. But honestly, the car sounds really good. I'm only 5'11" so no need to be worrying about blocking anything unlike you tall guys. :jest:

You find, you normally get what you pay for. While there's nice mid item prices that most will like and favor, I tend to go a step farther. I figure I'm investing in something that I won't have to go back and do over again. Do it right the first time, saves lots of trouble later on. That's just me though.

uhhh, there are many advantages to a 3 way component system over a traditional 2 way, the biggest being that there is a very tough transition in the 3-5khz range from the mid to the tweeter with most 2 ways. of course, this is not such a large deal if you go with a smaller mid, but then you will often lose some of the low end extension as well. 3 ways are very valuable, particularly in car audio.
My bad I was talking about those cheap 3 way speakers, the ones that are put together into one speaker.

Most 3-way coaxials do not offer a significant upgrade. If you take a closer look at most of the common 3-way coaxials - they usually just add a "supertweeter" or some sort of rather pointless 1/2 or smaller tiny little dome, that doesn't really contribute anything to the driver. Often times they actually retain the same tweeter.

Particularly on 6x9's this can just get flat our ridiculous, with vendors like Pioneer offering 4-ways. It's marketing, and not worth it.

I agree in a proper setup that midranges are quite valuable, but in terms of coaxials I think 3 ways are generally quite pointless and just a way to get a little more money from you. I think that was the other guys main point.

uhhh, there are many advantages to a 3 way component system over a traditional 2 way, the biggest being that there is a very tough transition in the 3-5khz range from the mid to the tweeter with most 2 ways. of course, this is not such a large deal if you go with a smaller mid, but then you will often lose some of the low end extension as well. 3 ways are very valuable, particularly in car audio.

i ran cheap reference components up front, and even cheaper reference 2 ways in the sails, offset the fade to the rear a couple notches and it made a world of difference. For clarity of the different frequencies the components are great. I had all kappa in my 3rd gen Z and i didnt wanna spend that much money when doing the SS, so i went reference and until i blow them they are awesome, so clear and sharp, sound even better then kappas with the components. I didnt bother running an amp for the doors and sails, the internal amp on my P80MP is 60x4 which powers the references well, and gets very loud, and then i have 2 reference 12's in the trunk with a crappy huge amp, turn the bass down, turn the highs up and adjust the sub output to your liking, for a budget system im really happy with the results and most people have been really impressed

DJ, great to see you overhere on LS1Tech...a little more people traffic than FBodyAudio.com

I have done a lot of research and have decided to put JL XR650 coaxials in the rear seats and JL XR650 components in the doors and their tweeters in the a pillars. I am going to put each crossover in the back by the amp (JL 300/4) in the passenger side cubby. A JL 12W6v2 in the driver cubby with a custom fiberglass box that extends to the rear seat to get enough air, powered by a JL 1000/1 amp. It should sound great!

I don't think I'm going to make any "serious" car modifications. My main purpose of my car is certain types of racing. I use it for a show here and there and like to have my stereo too. Kick panels will get in the way. I won't be doing any custom fiberglass enclosures.

I want to work with (stock speaker locations) and what I read on Mike's site, it looks like a set of focal components would be a good try. I dont mind custom mounting the tweeter.

What about head units? What types do people usually buy or swear by for sound quality? Does a 2 watt vs a 5watt preamp voltage make a big difference?

Does a 2 watt vs a 5watt preamp voltage make a big difference?

RCA level signal output is measured in Volts. Usually most run-of-the-mill decks output anywhere from 250 to 500 mV (millivolts). A decent high end deck should have an output of anywhere from 2 volts to even 8 volts. The higher the signal level (voltage output) the less noise can be introduced into the cable, and into the input of the amp. Also, the gain of the amplifier can be turned down to effectively reduce the noise floor of the system. Simply put, higher RCA voltage=less noise. Here's some light reading about the subject here (http://www.bcae1.com/preoutv.htm).

Oops yeah I meant voltage

well im pretty happy with infinity components, 6.5 seps in front and back with one JL 10 in rear in a fiberglass box, as for the sound stage in the car, using the same setup in my 94 prelude it sounded better, in the camaro i mounted the tweeters 2" to the rear of the stock door panel speakers(doesnt sound as good) where in the prelude they were in the dash facing the driver and passenger, which made for a better sound stage. you could go to the end of the world and back or hack your car up sticking speakers everywhere, or just put in descent stuff in the stock locations and enjoy it. as for 3 ways i never really liked there sound clarity or sound separation.
it all boiles down to personnal preference.