Automotive News, Media & Press - Thoughts on the 2008 Supra

Just wondering what you all thought about it. My co-worker came in and told me about it. Apparently her friend works for Toyota and said that the car should be out in about 6 months. The site is saying Oct 07. I havent really heard anything about it other than an article talking about toyota testing a possible supercar. I looked up this site http://www.2008toyotasupra.net/ Towards the bottom is an article talking about price and powerplants etc.. I guess there will be a 3.5L V6 w/around 350bhp and 275trq, and a 5.0 V8 w/around 450bhp and 383trq. Prices are 40k and 50k. The convertible wont have the V8 apparently due to "rigidity issues."

Probably the same chassis as upcomming IS 500, or IS-F whatever you want to call it, probably the same shitty Aisin gearbox and IRS designed by wheelhop incorporated. A bored and stroked version of the 4.7 from the LX.

I thought Toyota said there was no plans for a new Supra?

I thought Toyota said there was no plans for a new Supra?
I always heard talk of them eventually doing it. Besides seeing pics in car and driver or some magazine of a Toyota car @ Nuremburg I think, this is the first I have heard about it.

Doesn't look too bad. It get one if it was a easy to mod as the 2jz.

It would be sweet with a v8, since the ricers idolize supras maybe that'll be some insight into 8 cylinder superiority :)

are you sure thats not an echo with a body kit???

Probably the same chassis as upcomming IS 500, or IS-F whatever you want to call it, probably the same shitty Aisin gearbox and IRS designed by wheelhop incorporated. A bored and stroked version of the 4.7 from the LX.

Wheel Hop? IRS's hope less then an axle. Besides its not designed to only go in a straight line, never has been.

You know, "retro look" may work for the Mustang and new Challenger, but that 2000GT front end on the "Japanese ad" car is just damned BUTT FUGLY!! Now most of you are waaayyy too young too even know what I'm talking about. Look up TOYota 2000GT and you'll understand.

BTW; I was hoping they would set the price high enough to quell some of the :hail: that comes with the Supra name (and to keep potential C6/C7 buyers out of the Toyota). That price is too low. Hopefully it will be a heavy pig, despite it's power, and that will at least keep the true performance enthusiasts out of it (and the new Skyline) and in Vettes!! :usa:

You know, "retro look" may work for the Mustang and new Challenger, but that 2000GT front end on the "Japanese ad" car is just damned BUTT FUGLY!! Now most of you are waaayyy too young too even know what I'm talking about. Look up TOYota 2000GT and you'll understand.

BTW; I was hoping they would set the price high enough to quell some of the :hail: that comes with the Supra name (and to keep potential C6/C7 buyers out of the Toyota). That price is too low. Hopefully it will be a heavy pig, despite it's power, and that will at least keep the true performance enthusiasts out of it (and the new Skyline) and in Vettes!! :usa:
I know what you're talking about! It doesn't need to be another Jaguar wannabe. The car will be nice, but will cost too much and serve no purpose whatsoeve, just like the last one. Isn't a Halo car supposed to draw people to the dealorships? Then why the hell does no one outside the automotive circles know what a Supra is anymore? Toyota is making a mistake unless they manage to market it this time.

Horsepower wars are a good thing.

Wheel Hop? IRS's hope less then an axle. Besides its not designed to only go in a straight line, never has been.
I know how their IRS systems act under power, they hop. The SC/GS/IS are all prone to hop so bad under WOT launch that VDIM cant be turned off without a lengthy procedure.

http://www.2008toyotasupra.net/stills/2008-toyota-supra-sneak-preview-tease.jpg anyone notice the rodester one?
it looks alot like a solstice to me

Posed to become the number #1 car manufacturer throughout the world and hasn't had a sports car to speak of since the '97 Supra. Doesn't look to good for both Ford & GM especially if the Supra is tuner friendly. Overall I think it will be a fast reliable car but most of the Japanese import cars are kind of boring and not too soul inspiring.

Too bad every Supra up until the final model were not really that reliable. Good luck finding a Mk III without a head gasket problem, and I'm not even talking about the turbo models, just the NA versions. The models before that were just not contenders, and thus failed. The only thing Toyota made that I would even consider a proper sports car was the MR2, and looky looky, Toyota killed it off because they werent selling. Face it, people don't go to Toyota for a performance car, they go for bread and butter sedans. Unfortunately, sportiness and bland reliability are usually mutually exclusive, with a few notable exceptions.

It would be sweet with a v8, since the ricers idolize supras maybe that'll be some insight into 8 cylinder superiority :)


It's not that we dislike V8's, it has more to do with technology than anything else. We like DOHC motors and some form of Variable Valve Timing to be able to rev up to 8-9000rmp from a V8.

If Toyota, Nissan, Honda decided to come out with a V8 supercar, I garuantee you they can do it with half the displacement. I've said this before, 7.0 and 8.3 liter is alot of motor to only make 500hp and 500ftlb from. Give me a 4.3 liter, DOHC VVTI, 8200rpm V8 500hp over a pushrod anyday.

Too bad every Supra up until the final model were not really that reliable. Good luck finding a Mk III without a head gasket problem, and I'm not even talking about the turbo models, just the NA versions. The models before that were just not contenders, and thus failed. The only thing Toyota made that I would even consider a proper sports car was the MR2, and looky looky, Toyota killed it off because they werent selling. Face it, people don't go to Toyota for a performance car, they go for bread and butter sedans. Unfortunately, sportiness and bland reliability are usually mutually exclusive, with a few notable exceptions.


What are you talking about! There are only 3 cars that America has to offer to the rest of the world. And the C6 Z06 is the best at it. You travel to other countries and our cars get looked down upon. They're laughing at our face for only making 500hp out of 7.0 and 8.3 liter pushrod motors. Have technologically advance is that.

The reason why they discontinued the Mr2 and Supra was due to there pricing and currency exchange in the early 90's. Hell the mr2 was almost a 50,000 dollar car in 91-95. And the supra was close to 70,000 at that time. The 3000gt, RX-7, NSX, etc... where all over 50,000. Back then that was alot of money for sports cars. But all of those cars were still being made over sea's . Mr2 until '99. Supra '01( I think). Rx-7('04 maybe).

I've said this before, 7.0 and 8.3 liter is alot of motor to only make 500hp and 500ftlb from. Give me a 4.3 liter, DOHC VVTI, 8200rpm V8 500hp over a pushrod anyday.

It's not just about making the hp/tq, it's about where in the rpm range you start to feel it. This is why I'm not generally impressed with smaller displacment DOHC motors.

Look at the sort of torque you're getting out of a 7.0L LS7 at say 2500-3000rpm, you won't see numbers like that from a 4.xxL DOHC V8 that's built to rev to 8200rpm.

It's a matter of preferance. I'd much rather have lower end grunt you can feel sooner in the power band. 8000rpm doesn't really interest me for driving around town.

It's not just about making the hp/tq, it's about where in the rpm range you start to feel it. This is why I'm not generally impressed with smaller displacment DOHC motors.

Look at the sort of torque you're getting out of a 7.0L LS7 at say 2500-3000rpm, you won't see numbers like that from a 4.xxL DOHC V8 that's built to rev to 8200rpm.

It's a matter of preferance. I'd much rather have lower end grunt you can feel sooner in the power band. 8000rpm doesn't really interest me for driving around town.

Not to mention the fact that a 4.xxL DOHC V8 will be spending more fuel making power at 8000 RPM than a larger V8 will be making at 2800. Also, higher rpm also mean a natural increase on parts wear. Just look at Ferraris, they rev to high heaven, but have to have their engines rebuilt every year or so depending on mileage. And the last time I checked, those Ferrari V8s were pretty small and getting pretty craptacular fuel economy.

On a side note, there, however, is Toyota's problem. They don't believe in making muscle cars everyone can afford. I guarantee the Supra will be a great performer, but I can also guarantee that the same kind of performance can be found for less over at the Domestic table. So my Camaro will rattle a bit more than the Supra. At least it won't blow a head gasket at full throttle. :flipbird:

You travel to other countries and our cars get looked down upon.

Who cares? Personally I don't like other countries. I like America. That's why I don't travel to other countries.

:usa:

They're laughing at our face for only making 500hp out of 7.0 and 8.3 liter pushrod motors. Have technologically advance is that.

Once again, 500hp/500tq are peak numbers. You have to look at the whole curve. A 7.0L V8 makes massive torque from nearly idle all the way to redline. Smaller DOHC motors are more peak/upper rpm oriented. It's a different feel of acceleration altogether. There's a market for both, this is why GM is still using big(er) V8s for the Vette. Why jump into the DOHC market when they're doing so well with the pushrod LS-series of motors?

Also, newer technology isn't always "better" just because it's more advanced, it all depends on what the goals are. DOHC is a more complicated design with more parts. Generally more expensive as well.

I would bet that they will have the head gasket problem fixed and looking at how they are getting ready to assault the F-150's and Silverado with the updated Tundra in trucks, it's just a matter of time before they dedicate themselves to putting out a quality sports car. One thing I know about the car industry(I work for a manufacturer)is when Toyota comes out with a product or looks at getting into a particular market segment they do their homework and put out a decent product. I would almost guarantee that the new Supra will be a pretty good sports car; topnotch interior, good fit/finish, and decent power. It is going to be a good time in the next couple of years with the Challenger,Camaro,up dated Mustang,GTR(skyline), and Supra coming out.

They're laughing at our face for only making 500hp out of 7.0 and 8.3 liter pushrod motors. Have technologically advance is that.

Bragging about HP/L shows how little you know about cars.

A smaller engine should make more HP/L. A short stroke means high, high RPM's. That's why crotch rockets can make 120+hp with .6 L at like 14,000 RPM's. A 7 Liter can't turn 14,000 RPM's, not because it isn't Vtech, but because it's stroke is much longer and pistons much larger.

While you are busy pulling your head out of ass, why don't do some research on how big DOHC blocks are compared to pushrods, especially the LS7. GM fit a lot of power in an aluminum block that is physically smaller and lighter weight than a lot of Jap DOHC's making much less power.

looking at how they are getting ready to assault the F-150's and Silverado with the updated Tundra in trucks

I think Toyota is a long way from dominating the full sized truck market. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Yet...the pro-import/sport compact guys whine and cry about Chrysler's pushrod, half a hemi 4cylinder "ringer" block that the Mopar guys were trying to use. Hum, yeah, it only JUST set a world land speed record for what, D or E Blown Gas Prepared with pleanty left in the tank?

Hum, I guess big old school pushrod displacement V-8s can't turn 10000 RPM, and make 1800+ horse out of 500 cubes and 2 4 bls. I guess old school pushrod displacement V-8s can't make nearly 800 RWHP out of 358 cid with a Holley 4 bl. Both of which eclipse by a long shot of your 1 HP per Cubic Inch as well as a 4.7L making an "expected" 500 horse (which will only net you about 1.75 HP per. Cubic Inch).

I suppose you can't take a production based V-8 push rod engine, change in for a 4 stage dry sump oil system, a slightly better set of race heads, tune it up and go win Le Mans what, 4 times out of the last 5 races? Or something like that...

Yeah because old school technology really isn't such a good idea when it means easy of maintance, one cam, two cam gears and a chain, and a hell of a lot less parts to fail. :roll:

We see the fan boy has come out of the wood work and has his gasoline suit on for the flame war :jest:


Now doubt that more valves = better idea and more power, if you give them the cylinder space to work in. Bigger pump = bigger possibilities.

I think Toyota is a long way from dominating the full sized truck market. I don't see that happening any time soon.
Especially without having a full size truck DIESEL on the market.

yeah, that Tundra will be nice. Who gives a flip though? The only people I see driving Tundras are the same kind of people driving Ridgelines, aka the brand loyalists. Now I will give Toyota credit, they are trying a smidgen harder than Honda, but still don't quite get it.

All the mags say Nissan "got it right" with the Titan, but I was a little skeptical. Everything on the truck seemed a victim of cost cutting, minus the interior. I was shocked when I saw, get this, U-clamps holding together a compression-bent, all wrinkled-up factory exhaust. I couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing. There were 0 welds. Also, the engine bay plastics struck me as a little cheap and flimsy, as did the entire exterior of the vehicle. The engine, while very nice, I just don't like the look of it. DOHC V8's have always bothered me, and I started wondering....Hold on this is a 5.6L DOHC V8 and it's only putting out 300 hp? Wasn't Chevy there almost 10 years ago with half the technology making similar numbers and getting similar gas mileage? Also, most people I'v talked to who use trucks for HARD work say they wouldn't even consider the Titan or the Tundra, much less the Ridgeline, simply for the fact that they all look plastic and fragile.

This is where Toyota will fail, however. They will make it so flashy and 'good-looking' to car buyers that the people who buy trucks for actual utility will shun them and call them toys, regardless of actual capability.

Now about those very rookie-esque engines that are supposed to be putting down some decent power ratings. I'll believe it when I see it. Knowing Toyota, they'll pack so many nannies onboard that the darn truck will handle like it's FWD, not to mention the detrimental effects on performance. Anyway....

yeah, that Tundra will be nice. Who gives a flip though? The only people I see driving Tundras are the same kind of people driving Ridgelines, aka the brand loyalists. Now I will give Toyota credit, they are trying a smidgen harder than Honda, but still don't quite get it.

All the mags say Nissan "got it right" with the Titan, but I was a little skeptical. Everything on the truck seemed a victim of cost cutting, minus the interior. I was shocked when I saw, get this, U-clamps holding together a compression-bent, all wrinkled-up factory exhaust. I couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing. There were 0 welds. Also, the engine bay plastics struck me as a little cheap and flimsy, as did the entire exterior of the vehicle. The engine, while very nice, I just don't like the look of it. DOHC V8's have always bothered me, and I started wondering....Hold on this is a 5.6L DOHC V8 and it's only putting out 300 hp? Wasn't Chevy there almost 10 years ago with half the technology making similar numbers and getting similar gas mileage? Also, most people I'v talked to who use trucks for HARD work say they wouldn't even consider the Titan or the Tundra, much less the Ridgeline, simply for the fact that they all look plastic and fragile.

This is where Toyota will fail, however. They will make it so flashy and 'good-looking' to car buyers that the people who buy trucks for actual utility will shun them and call them toys, regardless of actual capability.

Now about those very rookie-esque engines that are supposed to be putting down some decent power ratings. I'll believe it when I see it. Knowing Toyota, they'll pack so many nannies onboard that the darn truck will handle like it's FWD, not to mention the detrimental effects on performance. Anyway....

I guess 300hp isn't too bad for a 5.6L DOHC V8 considering GM makes 300hp with the 6.0L vortec V8, but at what rpm is that number on the DOHC motor? And more importantly, what's the torque and at what rpm?

I plan to be in the market for a medium duty full-sized 4X4 truck in a few years. I won't even be looking at Toyota/Honda/Nissan, not even a glance. When I think full sized truck, I think Ford/GM, and that's it.

I'll likely be getting a 2500HD with the 8.1L V8 (or 6.6L diesel if I have the extra cash). The big block only offeres a 30hp gain over the 6.0L V8, but I like the 450lb-ft of torque @3200rpm for towing a planned 8-9,000lbs worth of car and trailer (which is a 90lb-ft gain over the small block). I will be doing light plowing with it as well for the winters.

Also I really like the look of the new Silverados (though I have noticed that GM only redesigned the 1500 for '07, but the 2500/3500 should follow in the next year or two).

What are you talking about! There are only 3 cars that America has to offer to the rest of the world. And the C6 Z06 is the best at it. You travel to other countries and our cars get looked down upon. They're laughing at our face for only making 500hp out of 7.0 and 8.3 liter pushrod motors. Have technologically advance is that.

The reason why they discontinued the Mr2 and Supra was due to there pricing and currency exchange in the early 90's. Hell the mr2 was almost a 50,000 dollar car in 91-95. And the supra was close to 70,000 at that time. The 3000gt, RX-7, NSX, etc... where all over 50,000. Back then that was alot of money for sports cars. But all of those cars were still being made over sea's . Mr2 until '99. Supra '01( I think). Rx-7('04 maybe).

why are you even on thos board, you must have alot of freetime

If Toyota, Nissan, Honda decided to come out with a V8 supercar, I garuantee you they can do it with half the displacement. I've said this before, 7.0 and 8.3 liter is alot of motor to only make 500hp and 500ftlb from. Give me a 4.3 liter, DOHC VVTI, 8200rpm V8 500hp over a pushrod anyday.

You sound like a dyno racer. Go ahead and get your large, heavy 4.3L that you have to spin to the moon to make an impressive peak hp number that you can brag about on the internet and get your ass blown off the road by a Z06.

I guess 300hp isn't too bad for a 5.6L DOHC V8 considering GM makes 300hp with the 6.0L vortec V8, but at what rpm is that number on the DOHC motor? And more importantly, what's the torque and at what rpm?

I plan to be in the market for a medium duty full-sized 4X4 truck in a few years. I won't even be looking at Toyota/Honda/Nissan, not even a glance. When I think full sized truck, I think Ford/GM, and that's it.

I'll likely be getting a 2500HD with the 8.1L V8 (or 6.6L diesel if I have the extra cash). The big block only offeres a 30hp gain over the 6.0L V8, but I like the 450lb-ft of torque @3200rpm for towing a planned 8-9,000lbs worth of car and trailer (which is a 90lb-ft gain over the small block). I will be doing light plowing with it as well for the winters.

Also I really like the look of the new Silverados (though I have noticed that GM only redesigned the 1500 for '07, but the 2500/3500 should follow in the next year or two).
Do yourself the favor, wait 6 months, and get the diesel (or hurry up and get it NOW before the BS emissions and EGR shit goes on it).

What are you talking about! There are only 3 cars that America has to offer to the rest of the world. And the C6 Z06 is the best at it. You travel to other countries and our cars get looked down upon. They're laughing at our face for only making 500hp out of 7.0 and 8.3 liter pushrod motors. Have technologically advance is that.

The reason why they discontinued the Mr2 and Supra was due to there pricing and currency exchange in the early 90's. Hell the mr2 was almost a 50,000 dollar car in 91-95. And the supra was close to 70,000 at that time. The 3000gt, RX-7, NSX, etc... where all over 50,000. Back then that was alot of money for sports cars. But all of those cars were still being made over sea's . Mr2 until '99. Supra '01( I think). Rx-7('04 maybe).

Why do you hate on american stuff so much?

I work for lexus, I know how their IRS systems act under power, they hop. The SC/GS/IS are all prone to hop so bad under WOT launch that VDIM cant be turned off without a lengthy procedure.

Hmm, usaully IRS has more mounting pionts to locate the rear wheels. I guess the bushing must be butter soft on the end links.

Why do the bean counters always make engineers ruin performance cars? If someone can't take a little NVH for better performance, then they should buy another type of vehicle.

Why do you hate on american stuff so much?

Been lurking on this board for a while now, and I think this statement is backwards. Most members here hate on import stuff for no good reason. I'm a car/motorsports enthusiast, not an "American, Jap....whatever" loyalist. I thought most of us here would be a little more open minded. Oh well :judge:

Yeah because old school technology really isn't such a good idea when it means easy of maintance, one cam, two cam gears and a chain, and a hell of a lot less parts to fail. :roll:

I once change both cams, timing belt tensioner and all the lifters on my VW GTI 16V in 30mins. And that was taking my time. When was the last time you ever heard of someone do that with a LSX? That DOHC motor had two cams (intake/exhaust), a belt, tensioner, and lobes sat right on top of the lifters. Way less complex then a pushrod motor.

If anything, newer mechanical technology is less complex then older technology (but not always less expensive). Older technology has been around for so long, the cost amortizes over larger quantities.

Smaller engines requires newer technology to make decent power. When you triple or quadruple the displacement, you don't need the most expensive technology to make power, so why bother. Unless your in a horsepower war, or racing there's no need to raise the cost for us working stiffs.

Most members here hate on import stuff for no good reason. I'm a car/motorsports enthusiast, not an "American, Jap....whatever" loyalist. I thought most of us here would be a little more open minded. Oh well :judge:

Keep in mind this is a GM based site. You'll likely find more GM/Domestic loyalists here than you will equal oppertunity car enthusiasts.

Personally I'd call myself a domestic enthusiast, with an emphasis on GM but also interest in Ford and Dodge. I can appreciate some of the Euro offerings as well, but asian cars do nothing for me.

One thing I know about the car industry(I work for a manufacturer)is when Toyota comes out with a product or looks at getting into a particular market segment they do their homework and put out a decent product.
Yeah. Because the T100 was a huge hit when Toyots decided to get into the FS truck market. :eyes:

I"m an open-minded car enthusiast....
I welcome the chance for Toyota and the "imports" to test their mettle in a pony-car war against the domestic manufacturers. I'm just saying they'll lose and make nothing more than another 'cult racer' car....unless, you know, Toyota and the like actually price their product somewhere below the stratosphere for once.

I like technology advances and all, I just expect a certain amount of increase in performance over old technology when it is implemented, especially when the asking price for foreign brands is so high.

As for your 16v 4-banger. That engine is making like less than half the power of any of the LSx family so your point really doesn't hold much water. Oh but it's a small-displacement engine putting out high power you say? It doesn't matter if it's still less powerful and strapped to an inferior drivetrain for racing. I've driven GLI's before, and, although fairly slick handling-wise, they're still hadicapped by their FWD and just can't match a RWD car move for move. Sorry.

As for the other thing, yes, having all that mess on top and not in the block is helpful, but the more cylinders and banks you have to deal with, the complexity just multiplies.

Plus, I don't like belt-driven valvetrains. That's just asking for a valve to strike a piston...an incident I hear is somewhat common for older GLI/GTI guys with that same 16v engine. I'll keep my ancient chain-drive thank you very much...If one of my chains breaks, I've got ANOTHER one to run me until I get to a shop.

Hmm, usaully IRS has more mounting pionts to locate the rear wheels. I guess the bushing must be butter soft on the end links.

Why do the bean counters always make engineers ruin performance cars? If someone can't take a little NVH for better performance, then they should buy another type of vehicle.

More mounting parts mean dick. I think that the only car that I have been in with an IRS that didnt have a hop issue was a Vette, and I think that has more to do with geometry than anything else. Mustangs do it, CTS-V's do it... unless you spend a bit of money after you get the car... they will all wheel hop out of the showroom floor.

As for a DOHC, when you deal with a V8 (lets take the 4v Cobras as an example), you have 2 heads... not one like I-4's or straight 6's. So when you talk about production costs, and in the end the consumers cost to modify these cars... expense is far too great. After all, it is a lot cheaper to buy 1 cam versus 4 cams.

The reason why they discontinued the Mr2 and Supra was due to there pricing and currency exchange in the early 90's. Hell the mr2 was almost a 50,000 dollar car in 91-95. And the supra was close to 70,000 at that time. The 3000gt, RX-7, NSX, etc... where all over 50,000. Back then that was alot of money for sports cars. But all of those cars were still being made over sea's . Mr2 until '99. Supra '01( I think). Rx-7('04 maybe).

As much as I agree with some of what you're saying you're flat out talking out of your ass here. SW20 MR2s were not going for 50k you moron, nor were turbo Supras going for 70k either. The last of the 3KGT VR-4s were going for AT MOST 40k, same with FD RX-7s. And no shit NSXs cost more than 50k. The NSX has always been a 75k-90k sports car. As cracker ass as some of these "only buy American" assclowns can be you don't seem to know WTF you're talking about either. Get your shit right.

The reason most of the purebred Japanese sports cars were pulled from the US market during the 90s is that the Japanese manufacturers decided to target a different demographic by making their cars faster but in doing so these vehicles became more expensive. Many folks who were looking for cheap thrills in the form of an affordable Japanese sports car were left out to dry when the Big 6 took their top models upmarket. Look at the difference in performance between FC and FD RX-7s and Mark III and Mark IV Supras but also take a look at the price hike. For 40k in '93 you could get yourself a Corvette already.

So yah these cars were more expensive than their predecessors, but they did not cost the rediculous amounts of money you quoted.

I"m an open-minded car enthusiast....
I welcome the chance for Toyota and the "imports" to test their mettle in a pony-car war against the domestic manufacturers. I'm just saying they'll lose and make nothing more than another 'cult racer' car....unless, you know, Toyota and the like actually price their product somewhere below the stratosphere for once.

As for your 16v 4-banger. That engine is making like less than half the power of any of the LSx family so your point really doesn't hold much water. Oh but it's a small-displacement engine putting out high power you say? It doesn't matter if it's still less powerful and strapped to an inferior drivetrain for racing. I've driven GLI's before, and, although fairly slick handling-wise, they're still hadicapped by their FWD and just can't match a RWD car move for move. Sorry.

Plus, I don't like belt-driven valvetrains. That's just asking for a valve to strike a piston...an incident I hear is somewhat common for older GLI/GTI guys with that same 16v engine. I'll keep my ancient chain-drive thank you very much...If one of my chains breaks, I've got ANOTHER one to run me until I get to a shop.

Imports are at a disadvantage right away in North America because they get taxed up the yang, so the prices will be higher no matter what they do.

My 16V might be only making around 185whp (Mild Street Mods), but it also only weights 2100lb's. So its almost as fast as a stock 4th gen from a standing start (roll no way :judge: , I've tried :devil: ). Yes FWD does have its disadvantages on a track (road course or drag) vs. a rear drive car of similar weight (especially with lots of power), but you'd be suprised how well they work in a auto-x situation with a torsen type diff :drive: . They have their place in the performance world. Also, the first mass production front driver was designed to have all its drivetrain components in the front and leave all the cabin room for the passengers. The Mini was therefore able to be made smaller and lighter, and look how well it did in motorsport because of it :judge:

Stock LSx's only have one chain, so unless its changed to a dual roller, same problem, because unfortunately LSx's are interferance engines as well. Belts breaking are only common if the owners completely neglect regular maintenance. As long as you change then peroidically (70k miles), they work fine. Also they're much cheaper then chain drives and easier to change.

More mounting parts mean dick. I think that the only car that I have been in with an IRS that didnt have a hop issue was a Vette, and I think that has more to do with geometry than anything else. Mustangs do it, CTS-V's do it... unless you spend a bit of money after you get the car... they will all wheel hop out of the showroom floor.

As for a DOHC, when you deal with a V8 (lets take the 4v Cobras as an example), you have 2 heads... not one like I-4's or straight 6's. So when you talk about production costs, and in the end the consumers cost to modify these cars... expense is far too great. After all, it is a lot cheaper to buy 1 cam versus 4 cams.

Exactly, all stock cars unless real high performance will hop from the showroom.

Also exactly. That's why when you have the luxury of using a large displacement V8, there's no need for all that expence. You could spend the money later if you wanted to though http://www.araoengineering.com/pakages.htm :eek2: :drool:

Pure :pimp:

So you're telling me your GTI runs 13.5 in the quarter. Pretty impressive for a veedub, but that's modified as you stated. A stock 16v doesn't run 13s, in fact it'd be a little better suited racing a 3rd gen with a 305. Anyway, I see your point about the space issue. The Olds Toronado had tons of room

So you're telling me your GTI runs 13.5 in the quarter. Pretty impressive for a veedub, but that's modified as you stated. A stock 16v doesn't run 13s, in fact it'd be a little better suited racing a 3rd gen with a 305. Anyway, I see your point about the space issue. The Olds Toronado had tons of room

No, the best I've ever gotten the car to run was a 14.1, but I don't hit the track that often. With a better, smaller driver (I always bog it or spin like hell and I'm 240lbs) I think it could crack into the 13's. But drag racing is not what the car was built for anyway.

I have raced my friends auto 305 3rd Gen several times, its not even a challange anymore. Once he gets some more mods who knows (only exhaust, intake, TB and chip right now).

As cracker ass as some of these "only buy American" assclowns can be you don't seem to know WTF you're talking about either. Get your shit right.

So now when someone wants to support their own country's economy/companies (vs. a foreign company/economy) they are a "dumbass, cracker ass, assclown" huh?? :eyes: :mad: Wow, and people call me paranoid for saying that Japan/Asia, Inc. has brainwashed ALL of America. I guess we must then call ALL of the Nippon/Asian citizens over there, who are nationalist/loyalist to their own country's companies/economies, "dumbass, sushi assed assclowns". RIGHT??!

BTW; I am college educated and live 15 miles outside of Manhattan (NYC), with a native (now an American citizen) mainland Chinese girlfriend (who also prefers domestic cars). I guess I'm the epitome of a "cracker ass assclown", huh??!! :eyes: :eyes:

So now when someone wants to support their own country's economy/companies (vs. a foreign company/economy) they are a "dumbass, cracker ass, assclown" huh?? :eyes: :mad:

I wouldn't even worry about that "cracker assclown" bullshit liberal commentary. Frankly I thought it was sad and funny all at the same time. ;)

So now when someone wants to support their own country's economy/companies (vs. a foreign company/economy) they are a "dumbass, cracker ass, assclown" huh?? :eyes: :mad: Wow, and people call me paranoid for saying that Japan/Asia, Inc. has brainwashed ALL of America. I guess we must then call ALL of the Nippon/Asian citizens over there, who are nationalist/loyalist to their own country's companies/economies, "dumbass, sushi assed assclowns". RIGHT??!

BTW; I am college educated and live 15 miles outside of Manhattan (NYC), with a native (now an American citizen) mainland Chinese girlfriend (who also prefers domestic cars). I guess I'm the epitome of a "cracker ass assclown", huh??!! :eyes: :eyes:

- You ordered a cranberry juice?

- It's a natural diuretic. My girlfriend orders that stuff when she's on her period.

- What are you on your fucking period?


Seriously unwind your panties and loosen the braids in your hair. It was a joke so laugh bitch. The point of my post was to illustrate that you folks were right and the guy who posted those recockulous numbers was wrong. :) Hell I titled my thread on the butch looking Jeep Trailhawk "Not Aimed At The Ryan Seacrest Demographic." Are you going to throw a hissy fit because I made a gay joke too or what? Now, is this LS1Tech where we can be manly men and laugh at crude humor every now and then or B18C5Tech where we bitch about every little thing we find offensive?

Oh shit I made a Honda joke.

Are you going to throw a hissy fit because I made a gay joke too or what?

Only a liberal would have a problem with gay jokes. Hell, I think they're funny. :)

If being a domestic only driver/owner/enthusiast makes me a cracker that's fine. I'm good with that. :)

Assclown though? :gtfo:

:cheers: :P

Only a liberal would have a problem with gay jokes. Hell, I think they're funny. :)

If being a domestic only driver/owner/enthusiast makes me a cracker that's fine. I'm good with that. :)

Assclown though? :gtfo:

:cheers: :P

Hell I consider myself more liberal than conservative on most issues and even I wouldn't have a problem with gay jokes. I guess my point is that this is LS1Tech... the very place where the offshoot lounge site was named Seat Stays Up for crying out loud. :jest:

I've worked in "high tech" for over half my life and
can say confidently that if you have a low tech way
to do anything, pick it first.

I've worked in "high tech" for over half my life and
can say confidently that if you have a low tech way
to do anything, pick it first.

Most true statement of the year!!! :judge: My boss doesn't seem to understand that. It always seems like he's trying to impress someone...only I have to make it work :bang:

I wouldn't even worry about that "cracker assclown" bullshit liberal commentary. Frankly I thought it was sad and funny all at the same time. ;)

Anyone who buys a product because of some pre-concieved notion is an assclown, regardless of there race, religion or sexual preference (or how far south they live).

If you've weighted all the options and find two products that booth have exactly what you need, then why wouldn't you buy the one that supports your countries economy (even if only a part of its built there)? Also I'd bet that parts a maintenance is cheaper as well.

I've owned several VW's (and a couple of honduh's(young and stupid) and Suzuki's(bikes and ane car)), and though I've enjoyed all of them, the maintenance costs get to be annoying after a while. That's why I want a GM now. They've improved quality a lot and are on par with most the imports in most area's, plus they're dirt cheap to repair (relavtively speeking).

If you visualize and picture the word "assclown" it's really funny. :jest: :offtopic:

Anyone who buys a product because of some pre-concieved notion is an assclown

My "pre-concieved notion" towards sticking with GM, is that GM builds the best bang for the buck performance in the world. Though some people might try to dispute that, it's not an easy battle.

Then there's the quality issue, which the facts seem to show that GM is at least on par with nearly every import competitor these days.

As for all the rest of the reasons why I like GM, it's mostly all opinion and subjective to my personal situation, so that really doesn't matter when debating the issue. :)

Been lurking on this board for a while now, and I think this statement is backwards. Most members here hate on import stuff for no good reason. I'm a car/motorsports enthusiast, not an "American, Jap....whatever" loyalist. I thought most of us here would be a little more open minded. Oh well :judge:



I once change both cams, timing belt tensioner and all the lifters on my VW GTI 16V in 30mins. And that was taking my time. When was the last time you ever heard of someone do that with a LSX? That DOHC motor had two cams (intake/exhaust), a belt, tensioner, and lobes sat right on top of the lifters. Way less complex then a pushrod motor.

If anything, newer mechanical technology is less complex then older technology (but not always less expensive). Older technology has been around for so long, the cost amortizes over larger quantities.

Smaller engines requires newer technology to make decent power. When you triple or quadruple the displacement, you don't need the most expensive technology to make power, so why bother. Unless your in a horsepower war, or racing there's no need to raise the cost for us working stiffs.


keep changing that belt, or pistons will munchey munchey on your valves. And good luck changing the belt in 1/2 hr. Timing chain is part of a cam swap for the LS1 guys.

keep changing that belt, or pistons will munchey munchey on your valves. And good luck changing the belt in 1/2 hr. Timing chain is part of a cam swap for the LS1 guys.

I know, its nots like I need to change belts at every oil change, its once every 100k-120k KM's. Big woop, a belt change every 5years that only takes a half hour to swap (with the tensioner) :eek2:

But not everyone wants to swap cams on a LSX (don't know why they wouldn't though :) )

If I had enough money, I could swap like 8 sets of cams in a day and find the best combo for my VDub if I wanted to. Could you do that in a pushrod motor? (Maybe with quick release front end :jest: )

I know, its nots like I need to change belts at every oil change, its once every 100k-120k KM's. Big woop, a belt change every 5years that only takes a half hour to swap (with the tensioner) :eek2:

But not everyone wants to swap cams on a LSX (don't know why they wouldn't though :) )

If I had enough money, I could swap like 8 sets of cams in a day and find the best combo for my VDub if I wanted to. Could you do that in a pushrod motor? (Maybe with quick release front end :jest: )
Yep, you sure can with an LSX. Take and spin the motor gently to make sure that the lifters are caught into the retainers, swap cam, and you're good to go.

OMG!!! could it really be that over the last 60~ years of using OHV engines, TRICKS for changing a camshaft out have been developed!?!?! HOT DAMN!!! LOL j/k :jest:

OMG!!! could it really be that over the last 60~ years of using OHV engines, TRICKS for changing a camshaft out have been developed!?!?! HOT DAMN!!! LOL j/k :jest:
Yep...it's that new fangled black magic camshaft trick that only the l33t kno3.


Thanks for playing dohc, please pick up your parting gift at the door. :jest:

- You ordered a cranberry juice?

- It's a natural diuretic. My girlfriend orders that stuff when she's on her period.

- What are you on your fucking period?


Seriously unwind your panties and loosen the braids in your hair. It was a joke so laugh bitch. The point of my post was to illustrate that you folks were right and the guy who posted those recockulous numbers was wrong. :) Hell I titled my thread on the butch looking Jeep Trailhawk "Not Aimed At The Ryan Seacrest Demographic." Are you going to throw a hissy fit because I made a gay joke too or what? Now, is this LS1Tech where we can be manly men and laugh at crude humor every now and then or B18C5Tech where we bitch about every little thing we find offensive?

Oh shit I made a Honda joke.

Nope, NO f'in period here. You just sounded like one of those "import ONLY assclowns" who claim that every/anyone who buys a domestic nameplate (for whatever reason) is a dumbass rednecked Klan member. And SORRY, but that (as an AMERICAN) just PISSES ME OFF to NO end!!! :boiling: :mad: Since you did not use any smilies to show otherwise (or sarcasm), I thought you were straight up serious with your statement.
Apology given, I guess I misunderstood your intent.

Yep...it's that new fangled black magic camshaft trick that only the l33t kno3.


Thanks for playing dohc, please pick up your parting gift at the door. :jest:

OMG!!! could it really be that over the last 60~ years of using OHV engines, TRICKS for changing a camshaft out have been developed!?!?! HOT DAMN!!! LOL j/k :jest:

Yep, you sure can with an LSX. Take and spin the motor gently to make sure that the lifters are caught into the retainers, swap cam, and you're good to go.

If the motor's on an engine dyno, then sure, it doesn't take long. Why do think in the above post I said "quick release front end".

I can swap cams and lifters in a DOHC motor with the motor in the car in a half hour. I don't see that happening with a fully buttoned up f-bod.

Anyway, way :offtopic: :judge:

here's your quick change OHV cam solution. if it didnt have a belt, i'd be on it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/master__olly/cca-6100.jpg

and i'll be happier spending more time on my cam swap knowing that i'm only buying ONE cam. :poke:

If the motor's on an engine dyno, then sure, it doesn't take long. Why do think in the above post I said "quick release front end".

I can swap cams and lifters in a DOHC motor with the motor in the car in a half hour. I don't see that happening with a fully buttoned up f-bod.

Anyway, way :offtopic: :judge:

You mean LSx engines only come in F-bodies? Sonuvabitch! I guess I got ripped off at the dealership... :( :)


I'm just joking dude.

here's your quick change OHV cam solution. if it didnt have a belt, i'd be on it.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a334/master__olly/cca-6100.jpg

and i'll be happier spending more time on my cam swap knowing that i'm only buying ONE cam. :poke:

Thats SBC only, and whats wrong with belts? Ya, I guess 4 cams on a V motor would get expensive.

Thats SBC only, and whats wrong with belts? Ya, I guess 4 cams on a V motor would get expensive.
First Son, you need to get edumucated...

Um, there are belt drives out there for LSXs. Second, sure you have to move some accessories out of the way, but it's not that big of a deal. You act as though 2 cams in 30 minutes is some kind of contest.

Guess what...changing cams in less time than it takes to change tires might impress the "overhead cam gods" but it won't win friends and influence people on this board.

First Son, you need to get edumucated...

Um, there are belt drives out there for LSXs. Second, sure you have to move some accessories out of the way, but it's not that big of a deal. You act as though 2 cams in 30 minutes is some kind of contest.

Guess what...changing cams in less time than it takes to change tires might impress the "overhead cam gods" but it won't win friends and influence people on this board.

I'm edumucated enough.

That particular belt system you showed there is for a SBC.

I know there are drivebelts out there for LSX's, but they're major $$$ and race only.

I'm not trying to impress anyone, I'm just saying thats what happened. Couldn't give a rats azz if your impressed or not.

Its time to let this subject just die :judge: :lock:

How about that Supra. I'm liking the older one more. Maybe the new Supra will grow on me. Pretty crazy to see toyota put out a 5.0 V8 as well. :eek2: