Stereo & Electronics - Sub Vs. Sub.. lets hear it..

Well i made my decisions... its between the Diamond Audio D310D2... or the MTX MSX1004.. these are the specs.. which one do u think will be better for the stealthbox?


Diamond Audio..

Subwoofer Specifications:

* Subwoofer Size 10"
* Impedance 2 ohms
* Dual Voice Coil Yes
* Peak Power Handling 800 watts
* RMS Power Handling 400 watts
* Woofer Surround Rubber
* Woofer Composition N/A
* Sealed Box Volume N/A
* Ported Box Volume N/A
* Sensitivity 84 dB
* Frequency Response 28 - 250Hz
* Xmax (millimeters) N/A
* Top Mount Depth 5.6"
* Cutout Diameter 9.2"
* Warranty 1-year SE


MTX..


* Single 4 ohms MXS 10" High Performance Super Subwoofer
* 400 watts RMS power handling
* Nitrile Butadiene Rubber Woofer Surround
* Mica-filled polypropylene Woofer Composition
* 1.75" Dual 4 ohms Voice Coils
* Tinsel leads woven in the spider
* Heavy duty chrome push terminals for easy speaker wire connection
* Spider Plateau Venting technology which ensures a cooler, more reliable subwoofer
* Magnet weight: 94 oz.
* Sealed Box Volume: 0.75 cubic ft.
* Ported Box Volume: 1.45 cubic ft.
* Top Mount Depth: 6-11/16"
* Cutout Diameter: 9-1/8"
* Priced per speaker

just my novice take based on what you've got posted and not knowing squat about either one....go MTX...

Would need T/S specs to give you a really good answer, but in general, I'd take Diamond over MTX practically any day

Whats the CI on the stealth box?

CI?... T/S?... its the stealthbox from subthump by the way..

Are you running one sub? One sub is DVC 2ohms and the other is DVC 4 ohms. Better check to see what impedence you need for your amp.

CI?... T/S?... its the stealthbox from subthump by the way..

I meant was, how many cubic feet is that "stealthbox" you are referring to.. If that stealth box (the one that fits in the driver side corner) only has .6 cubic feet, then you get a sub that needs 1 cubic foot, its going to sound like shit.

Not really enough info listed to sufficiently compare the pair here. The sensitivity of the Diamond suggests it will take a TON of power to hear that thing, which is why the dual 2ohm voice coils I'm sure. What is the frequency response of the MTX?

Budget wise, the MTX would be the way to go. Good quality subs (when I was using them in the '80s anyway -- not sure of their rep now) for not a lot of cash.

Sound quality wise, I would take the Diamonds, if you can afford them.

I know its not one of the choices, but I have to recommend it from personal experience. Look into Elemental Designs subwoofers, they are designed to fit in that small amount of volume that a stealthbox is limited too. They also trick all my friends into thinking I have 2 10s or 2 12s in my car and they also have a FIVE YEAR warranty, try finding something to match that. Just my advice though, but between the two Id go with Diamond Audio, unless your stressing a budget. It would also help to tell us what amp you plan on running, GL though and post pics when you get it installed.

I meant was, how many cubic feet is that "stealthbox" you are referring to.. If that stealth box (the one that fits in the driver side corner) only has .6 cubic feet, then you get a sub that needs 1 cubic foot, its going to sound like shit.

Elemental Design's subs recommend .5 cubic feet for IDEAL sealed enclosure and .7cf for LARGE. Its hard to find any sub that can perform in the .6cf that the Subthump box gives us.

F that, go Dayton or IDQ for 10", TC-1000 or Fi Q for 12"

I know its not one of the choices, but I have to recommend it from personal experience. Look into Elemental Designs subwoofers, they are designed to fit in that small amount of volume that a stealthbox is limited too. They also trick all my friends into thinking I have 2 10s or 2 12s in my car and they also have a FIVE YEAR warranty, try finding something to match that. Just my advice though, but between the two Id go with Diamond Audio, unless your stressing a budget. It would also help to tell us what amp you plan on running, GL though and post pics when you get it installed.
All of your friends must not have heard a nice system with 2 10s or 2 12s to believe a single 10 eD will perform the same in a stealth box.
I guarantee your 10 sounds no where remotely close to my 2 12s ;)

As far as the speaker, I'd pick Diamond over MTX any day. But opening the field up to other options, there are a few others I'd pick first.

Would need T/S specs to give you a really good answer, but in general, I'd take Diamond over MTX practically any day
word...i have had MTX and was VERY let down by it.

All of your friends must not have heard a nice system with 2 10s or 2 12s to believe a single 10 eD will perform the same in a stealth box.
I guarantee your 10 sounds no where remotely close to my 2 12s ;)

As far as the speaker, I'd pick Diamond over MTX any day. But opening the field up to other options, there are a few others I'd pick first.

For a small cabin and from a small enclosure, yes it does sound like 2 10s or maybe 2 12s. Read the Subthump website and tell me what sub they recommend the most for their enclosure. :judge: Plus for the money I spent and the weight and usage of the trunk I saved, ill take my lonely 10 and continue to get compliments. :chug:

What kind of subs do you have btw? I wouldnt doubt they are better than my sub, but he is asking for one to fit in a stealthbox, putting a 12 in their is almost pointless. Getting the T-top box is a better since you can put two and get around 1cf each I believe, but the downside is the weight and cost.

No Sensitivity rating on the MTX? I've never had good luck w/ those.

Diamond Audio has a good rep of almost high end audio...


Infinity has really good specs. That's why I bought my Kappa Perfect 12's.
aluminum cone
high-roll butyl-rubber surround
massive cast-aluminum basket
dual 4-ohm voice coils
suitable for free-air use (handles up to 175 watts in free-air applications)
recommended power range 75-350 watts RMS (175 watts per coil)
peak power handling 1,400 watts
frequency response 18-200 Hz
sensitivity 96 dB

You can always spot specs that are a lie when they claim both good frequency extension (especially low-end) and high sensitivity.

And I'd call it basically impossible to get down to 18Hz in a small sealed box.

T/S specs are pretty much like bench racing cars. You can't tell what a part will do for your car until you get to the track, there are too many variables involved. The same is true with car audio, the T/S parameters will give you a general idea, but you never know what it will sound like until you have it installed in your car. There are too many variables involved in car audio as well.

I'd say T/S specs can be used to directly compare speakers (assuming they're in the same location and stuff) but not to accurately predict the actual output of them.

For a small cabin and from a small enclosure, yes it does sound like 2 10s or maybe 2 12s. Read the Subthump website and tell me what sub they recommend the most for their enclosure. :judge: Plus for the money I spent and the weight and usage of the trunk I saved, ill take my lonely 10 and continue to get compliments. :chug:

What kind of subs do you have btw? I wouldnt doubt they are better than my sub, but he is asking for one to fit in a stealthbox, putting a 12 in their is almost pointless. Getting the T-top box is a better since you can put two and get around 1cf each I believe, but the downside is the weight and cost.
I've heard a few stealth box setups. The best one I heard had a 10" L7 in it that my uncle did. But it was no where close to my 2 12s :)
I have 2 TC Sounds db-500s in a 3.4 cF box ported to 32 hz. I'm pretty close to doing a hair trick ;) By the way... my car is already slow, so I don't care about adding weight :P And my box costed me about $28, so cost was not a downside for me LOL.

I'd say T/S specs can be used to directly compare speakers (assuming they're in the same location and stuff) but not to accurately predict the actual output of them.
Yeah that is why I was saying you can get a general idea, but not really much else.
Obviously you know a speaker low a low Fs, high Xmax, high sensitivity, and high power handling will sound better than a speaker that is exactly the opposite, the T/S parameters will tell you all you need to know there. But sometimes there are just subtle differences that can create huge improvements in your system that you wouldn't have known unless you bought the speakers and installed them :P

For a small cabin and from a small enclosure, yes it does sound like 2 10s or maybe 2 12s. Read the Subthump website and tell me what sub they recommend the most for their enclosure. :judge: Plus for the money I spent and the weight and usage of the trunk I saved, ill take my lonely 10 and continue to get compliments. :chug:

What kind of subs do you have btw? I wouldnt doubt they are better than my sub, but he is asking for one to fit in a stealthbox, putting a 12 in their is almost pointless. Getting the T-top box is a better since you can put two and get around 1cf each I believe, but the downside is the weight and cost.


Steve is a dealer for them. Of course he's going to recommend them. :eyes: There's other speakers that sound good in his box too. I can think of 4 others off hand.

12 inch jlw3 in a vented box sounds great...i had 2 10's and it didnt hit hard enough(phoenix golds).....but no i gotta put my t-tops in the back seat when remove them.

MTX MSX1004 Recommended sealed enclosure: .75 CuFt.
Thiele-Small paramaters:

Fs: 47.00 Hz
Qms: 4.95
Cms: 0.072 mm/N
Mms: 159.31 g
Rms: 9.50 kg/s
Vas: 0.445 ft³ (12.59 liters)
Xmax: 0.650 in (16.51 mm)
D: 8.346 in (212.00 mm)
Sd: 54.71 in² (352.99 cm²)
Vd: 35.57 in³ (0.58 liters)
Qes: 0.79
Re: 2.97 Ω
Bl: 13.29 Tm
Prms: 400 Watts
Qts: 0.681
ηο: 0.160 %
SPLo: 84.24 dB
SPL 2.83V/1m: 88.44 dB

Diamond Audio: D310D2 Recommended sealed enclosure: .75 CuFt.



Parameter (unit)
SPL (dB) 84
Z ( ) {series} 4
Re ( ) {series} 3.2
Qms 6.9
Qes 0.605
Qts 0.557
Fs (Hz) 40.39
Vas (L) 14
Cms (mm/N) 0.091
Mms (g) 170
Sd (m2) 0.033
BL (T*M) 15.1
Xmax (mm) 11
Pwr(W)NOM/MAX 400/800



Elemental Designs 11Kv.2
Recommended sealed enclosure: .5CuFt.
T/S Parameters:
Qts: .28
Qes: .31
Qms: 2.7
Fs: 24.8 Hz
Re: 7.0
Vas: 66 L
Mms: 116 g
Bl: 19 T*m
SPL: 87.1 dB
Sd: 350 cm^2
Xmax: 15.1 mm
Voice Coil: 50 mm

Magnet Width: 5.700"
Cutout Diameter: 9.125"
Mounting Depth: 5.000"
Weight: 13 lb
Total Height: 6.375"
Displacement: .07 ft^3
Outside Diameter: 10.250"

Personally, I'd recommend Elemental Designs. I have one (the old flat-cone style) and it rocks. it is a 12" in a custom made stealthbox with a total airspace of about .8 cubic feet without the sub installed. After the sub is installed it is more like .6 cubic feet. I am feeding it 500w RMS from an old-school Fosgate mono amp, and it slams. I have had comments from people saying that it sounds like a pair of 12"s or 15"s, and they are shocked when they see the hatch. For an explanation of T/S parameters and what they mean, see THIS (http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t141.html).


EDIT: howierd42 (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/member.php?u=20262): Thanks for the info.

Diamond Audio:
Not available on website.

You did not look very hard

http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/151/173/

I have had comments from people saying that it sounds like a pair of 12"s or 15"s, and they are shocked when they see the hatch.
This is just too funny...

Without T/S it would be impossible to build an optimum enclosure for any speaker, I don't care what car you put it in. It is incomprehensible to me that most installers today think you can just build a box that fits and throw any speaker you want into it and expect it to perform. I am not trying to start a debate or a diatribe here but the manufacturers do give you those specs for a reason.

Without T/S it would be impossible to build an optimum enclosure for any speaker, I don't care what car you put it in. It is incomprehensible to me that most installers today think you can just build a box that fits and throw any speaker you want into it and expect it to perform. I am not trying to start a debate or a diatribe here but the manufacturers do give you those specs for a reason.

That's true, I've seen so many cars with really nice equipment, but using premade enclosures (i.e. Q-logic, etc.) and the subs sound like ass. Usually you can get away with a larger or smaller enclosure size (10%) on a sealed box, but a ported box has to be tuned right (port length, diameter, etc.) to sound good. One thing I really hate is Best Buy selling the premade bandpass boxes.

This is just too funny...

Thats because they usually buy a pair of 15"s from Best Buy and stick them into a Q-logic premade box. :)

That's true, I've seen so many cars with really nice equipment, but using premade enclosures (i.e. Q-logic, etc.) and the subs sound like ass. Usually you can get away with a larger or smaller enclosure size (10%) on a sealed box, but a ported box has to be tuned right (port length, diameter, etc.) to sound good. One thing I really hate is Best Buy selling the premade bandpass boxes.

Capitalism at work. I don't mind them selling them, if someone buys one and makes their subs sound like crap in it, it's their fault for not knowing what they're doing.