Automotive News, Media & Press - Won by 121,000 Again

:secret2:With all the negative news about this industry and that industry being down. Plants closing, jobs going outside of the US etc.etc.etc. The war, Politics, Poor Britney.

General Motors delivered, in the USA, 334,924 vehicles in September of 2007:D:D:D

Second place when to Toyota :gtfo:who delivered 213,043 vehicles during the same time period. :chug::chug::chug:

That's automotive news you can take to the bank.:bang:

Thanks for the great news!! Now we have to work to get the other 2 domestic nameplates up above the sheeples' favorite Nippon Giant!! :usa:

I know you go back to a time when we did not have to worry about $h!t like this, when there were NO imports (none that could challenge our economy, at least). Sometimes the "good 'ol days" really were good.

i don't drive vehicles that when the profit is made is sent back to Japan. I know they build 'em here and pay workers but they don't reinvest anything in OUR country. ROCK ON GM:D Now just gotta get Ford better the Toyota and say good by to 'Yota~Cole~

i don't drive vehicles that when the profit is made is sent back to Japan. I know they build 'em here and pay workers but they don't reinvest anything in OUR country. ROCK ON GM:D Now just gotta get Ford better the Toyota and say good by to 'Yota~Cole~

It's hard to really know where the dollars you spend end up. I've been buying a bunch of Honey Dues from Home Depot and Lowes. 99.99% made in China.:barf:

i don't drive vehicles that when the profit is made is sent back to Japan. I know they build 'em here and pay workers but they don't reinvest anything in OUR country. ROCK ON GM:D Now just gotta get Ford better the Toyota and say good by to 'Yota~Cole~

IF that were the case, how do you brush your teeth, ride without tires, eat, watch tv, listen to music, listen to ipod, take pictures, etc..... dont be ignorant enough, to believe that the majority of the profits go back to Japan!

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/HellFreezesOverGMFadestoNo2.aspx

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/HellFreezesOverGMFadestoNo2.aspx

So let me guess, you own a Tundra now??

I am done listening to the Toyota fucks..,

IF that were the case, how do you brush your teeth, ride without tires, eat, watch tv, listen to music, listen to ipod, take pictures, etc..... dont be ignorant enough, to believe that the majority of the profits go back to Japan!

I don't think anyone is as ignorant as you 45 Pole Smoking Idiot and if you look hard enough like I do there are still a bunch of things made right here in the good ole USA, do me a favor move to Japan or China.

IF that were the case, how do you brush your teeth,

You forgot to add...............without lead, melamine or other poison.

I know, thats china. But it still isnt the USA.

Toyota is shit.

Never owned a Toyota, leave the guessing to people whom are informed through alternative avenues other then there chevy's drivers seat.:eyes:So let me guess, you own a Tundra now??

Never owned a Toyota, leave the guessing to people whom are informed through alternative avenues other then there chevy's drivers seat.:eyes:

Guess what, GM site, LS1 site, American Car site, Who give a fuck about Turdyota.:eyes:
You want to tell people about Toyota go to a Honda Board.
Toyota gets enough advertising without your help.

I don't hang out at import sites singing the praises of GM. :gtfo:

Never owned a Toyota, leave the guessing to people whom are informed through alternative avenues other then there chevy's drivers seat.:eyes:


Your fighting a losing battle, against these rednecks.

Your fighting a losing battle, against these rednecks.

:violin:

So because I don't like Imports and I defend GM on a GM board to an asshole such as yourself. I am a redneck? Go talk about how bad you think American cars on a Toyota board.
For all you people out there in love your Toyota. Merry Christmas
Print this, cut it out and hang it on your house windows...
http://gtf.org/yef/Japanese_empire_flag.png

Beat you to it.

Beat you to it.

oh that is right. I forgot I posted that over at SVTperformance where you are know as 25 Pole smoking idiot.

I like how you think you know me, considering I hang out with the mods there and here. I see atleast 10 members on both sites on a weekly basis. Your an idiot dude. You got clowned over there, now your trying to bring your insults on me. Ok, if it makes you feel better, Ill console you. Wanna Japanese hug?

Rednecks: Debatable. Economist: I belive that answer is obvious enough:DYour fighting a losing battle, against these rednecks.

I like how you think you know me, considering I hang out with the mods there and here. I see atleast 10 members on both sites on a weekly basis. Your an idiot dude. You got clowned over there, now your trying to bring your insults on me. Ok, if it makes you feel better, Ill console you. Wanna Japanese hug?

I believe you were the one clowned over there.
So what you hang out with the mods.
I know some on here to...BFD. Does that make you king of the world or something? Most likely not.
Like I said take it to a Toyota board.

I believe you were the one clowned over there.
So what you hang out with the mods.
I know some on here to...BFD. Does that make you king of the world or something? Most likely not.
Like I said take it to a Toyota board.





:mullet:

I am done with you dude.
You win...

Sounds familar, here is a homework assignment for you to read. Remember this is an oportunity to listen; not speak. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TheUnitedStatesOfToyota.aspxI am done listening to the Toyota fucks..,

Sounds familar, here is a homework assignment for you to read. Remember this is an oportunity to listen; not speak. http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TheUnitedStatesOfToyota.aspx



Fine, you don't think I don't know that. That wasn't the point of this topic or my post aimed at 45 PSI
However I would suggest you find out how many plants GM has in the states as opposed to the number Toyota has
Toyota has a total fo 14 in North America
GM has 29 plants in America Alone
Toyota Employs 36,000 folks in those plants
GM employs 78,000 in their plants.
The media is a tool of America bashing and very good at spinning stuff.
Where in this thread did I even say anything about Toyota making a bad product or they didn't make anything in America. I didn't.
What I said was I was tired of listening to Toyota fucks.
THAT IS WHY I AM ON GM BOARD!
Damn thick headed people.
Go to a a Toyota board if you like them and want to discuss how great their products are and how great the company is.
I am done with you as well
You win too.

Fine, you don't think I don't know that. That wasn't the point of this topic or my post aimed at 45 PSI
However I would suggest you find out how many plants GM has in the states as opposed to the number Toyota has
Toyota has a total fo 14 in North America
GM has 29 plants in America Alone
Toyota Employs 36,000 folks in those plants
GM employs 78,000 in their plants.
The media is a tool of America bashing and very good at spinning stuff.
Where in this thread did I even say anything about Toyota making a bad product or they didn't make anything in America. I didn't.
What I said was I was tired of listening to Toyota fucks.
THAT IS WHY I AM ON GM BOARD!
Damn thick headed people.
Go to a a Toyota board if you like them and want to discuss how great their products are and how great the company is.
I am done with you as well
You win too.




:mullet:

Wasn't the topic of this post? The first post was posted a fact about automobiles delivered inside USA, GM and Toyota being compaired (of which is correct). It was then declaired that this is such great news and that the business aspect of GM was going strong in compairson to past US market control. Most automakers make decent cars, but it isn't about the product as it is about the way the business is oporated. Look at McDonald's as a terrific analogy; sub-par food, and yet a amazing franchise.Fine, you don't think I don't know that. That wasn't the point of this topic or my post aimed at 45 PSI
However I would suggest you find out how many plants GM has in the states as opposed to the number Toyota has
Toyota has a total fo 14 in North America
GM has 29 plants in America Alone
Toyota Employs 36,000 folks in those plants
GM employs 78,000 in their plants.
The media is a tool of America bashing and very good at spinning stuff.
Where in this thread did I even say anything about Toyota making a bad product or they didn't make anything in America. I didn't.
What I said was I was tired of listening to Toyota fucks.
THAT IS WHY I AM ON GM BOARD!
Damn thick headed people.
Go to a a Toyota board if you like them and want to discuss how great their products are and how great the company is.
I am done with you as well
You win too.

GM was also the 2nd quarter world wide sales leader, but still trails Toyota for the year slightly. They were also up in sales in September while Toyota was down. It will be interesting to see what the final 3rd quarter numbers show.

I'm suprised more effort hasn't been put into alternative fuels by automakers. The ideas have been forged, just a affordable automobile line and having the fuel available. Seems like someone would put one foot forward to make some $$$GM was also the 2nd quarter world wide sales leader, but still trails Toyota for the year slightly. They were also up in sales in September while Toyota was down. It will be interesting to see what the final 3rd quarter numbers show.

The world's No. 1 carmaker has ingratiated itself into U.S. life and become an 'American' company, capitalizing on years of mistakes by Detroit's Big Three.

Isn't this statement loaded??? Imports have been riding off the research of companies like GM and Ford for a long time. GM and Ford have invested untold millions into product development only to have imports copy the sucesses for minimal investment. GM leads the industry when it comes to cutting edge tech. GM uses higly interchangable componets in its products. Go look at a Hollander manual.

Also, GM has changed its Corporate goals. They no longer aim at being the biggest. They want to be the most reliable while supporting product quality and safety. You guys will see large changes in the next couple of years as far as product quality, engine reliablity, improved seals, better crash reliance. GM goes to huge lengths to improve safety. They investigate many crashes on the road as well as in the proving grounds.

Just look at what GM is up against fiancially, the % of domestic content, the higher prices of domestic design, the massive amount of engineering, the global network they support. GM does aerodynamic simulations that take servers an entire week to render.

Is Toyota moving into Latin America to help promote infrastructure in Brazil?

Imports might of had better quality for awhile. That gap is rapidy closing. Hopefully people won't clinch onto a perception which is no longer true.

Isn't this statement loaded??? Imports have been riding off the research of companies like GM and Ford for a long time. GM and Ford have invested untold millions into product development only to have imports copy the sucesses for minimal investment. GM leads the industry when it comes to cutting edge tech. GM uses higly interchangable componets in its products. Go look at a Hollander manual.

Also, GM has changed its Corporate goals. They no longer aim at being the biggest. They want to be the most reliable while supporting product quality and safety. You guys will see large changes in the next couple of years as far as product quality, engine reliablity, improved seals, better crash reliance. GM goes to huge lengths to improve safety. They investigate many crashes on the road as well as in the proving grounds.

Just look at what GM is up against fiancially, the % of domestic content, the higher prices of domestic design, the massive amount of engineering, the global network they support. GM does aerodynamic simulations that take servers an entire week to render.

Is Toyota moving into Latin America to help promote infrastructure in Brazil?

Imports might of had better quality for awhile. That gap is rapidy closing. Hopefully people won't clinch onto a perception which is no longer true.

Yep your right. They incorporated the use of pushrods and leaf springs into their lineuo :gtfo:. Yea GM is on the leading edge of technology, so much that they use Isuzu in their Duramax. Gm relies on Toyota and visa versa. Toyota is more involved than you think. Need I say Pontiac Vibe and other cars.

Not good news when you look at how many cars Toyota was putting out just a decade ago.

W

Yep your right. They incorporated the use of pushrods and leaf springs into their lineuo :gtfo:. Yea GM is on the leading edge of technology, so much that they use Isuzu in their Duramax. Gm relies on Toyota and visa versa. Toyota is more involved than you think. Need I say Pontiac Vibe and other cars.

So your implying that the duramax is crappy? and pushrod engines are not effective still today?? and neither are leaf spring suspensions? And I am pretty sure that its common knowledge that GM has NOT relied on toyota for engineering anywhere near as much as the Japanese have relied on the big 3

So your implying that the duramax is crappy? and pushrod engines are not effective still today?? and neither are leaf spring suspensions? And I am pretty sure that its common knowledge that GM has NOT relied on toyota for engineering anywhere near as much as the Japanese have relied on the big 3



IF that were the case, GM wouldnt be in the situation they are in now. GM abandoned the sport compact and economy vehicles, for the last 15 or so years. Its catching up with them now, considering the accomplishments Honda and Toyota have made over the last 20 or so years. GM is implementing forms of Variable Valve Timing in their cars. Their following the Germans in direct injection and they still use pushrods technology. Pretty soon, the vette will be powered by DOHC, jsut like the V6 Caddy. So no, they are not the leading forefront on technology.

I am not implying that the Duramax is crappy. Im simply stating that they used outside help, with a Japanese company to help propel the Duramax to what it is today. Tell me what have the Japanese relied on from the US?

IF that were the case, GM wouldnt be in the situation they are in now. GM abandoned the sport compact and economy vehicles, for the last 15 or so years. Its catching up with them now, considering the accomplishments Honda and Toyota have made over the last 20 or so years. GM is implementing forms of Variable Valve Timing in their cars. Their following the Germans in direct injection and they still use pushrods technology. Pretty soon, the vette will be powered by DOHC, jsut like the V6 Caddy. So no, they are not the leading forefront on technology.

I am not implying that the Duramax is crappy. Im simply stating that they used outside help, with a Japanese company to help propel the Duramax to what it is today. Tell me what have the Japanese relied on from the US?

Without the US it will just be a smoldering pile of rubble as they had to get outside help to rebuild. Japan DEPENDS on exporting products to the US and they depend on importing resources from the US. Japan has nothing. They are totally resourceless. :gtfo: Without a good product and image they would wither away.

Just because GM doesn't throw every little piece of tech into their cars doesn't mean they are crap. Who cares if they used a twist beam axle on small cars or leaf springs on some trucks. IRS is useless for the average driver and you won't find any coil springs for extreme weight applications.

The compact market is a giant turd when it comes to performance. The are driving cheap cars for a reason. Those people don't to spend money on anything but airfilters and rims. I have tried to sell them brand new stock engines for 1000 dollars and they would rather get a takeout from a junkyard for 200.

The Pontiac Vibe/Matrix was a partnership. Need I say more? If it was so one sided by would the other party be interested?

Pushrods mean a well priced engine that doesn't take up alot of space and building in terms of larger displacements. As the North American market allows this... Larger engines with are a hell of alot more driveable than import wind up toys. Less parts and cheaper to rebuild. Smaller timing chains and less chance of breaking. I guess I don't have to mention GM doesn't use cheap crappy timing belts as much.

You always have the factor that imports are going to cost more to fix and dependent on shipping parts in from overseas. But don't tell me that Toyota is all american because I know for fact that their timing componets are made in Korea, Taiwan, and other oriental countries.

From the Pittsburgh Post Gazette........


By Roger Simmermaker (Commentary)
Dec. 19, 2006

Ford and General Motors have taken turns besting the Toyota Camry in quality surveys for the past two years, but if you talk to many Americans – especially the ones who would never consider supporting home-based auto companies – you'd never know it.

Last year, the Chevrolet Impala beat the Camry in initial quality, according to J.D. Power & Associates. And Consumer Reports just announced that both the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan scored higher than both the Camry and the Honda Accord this year.

Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you'd almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies.

There's also the mythical perception that foreign automakers produce the most fuel efficient cars and that Detroit only makes gas-guzzlers when the truth is that all automakers – including Toyota, Honda and Hyundai-Kia alike – have allowed fuel economy to slide in the past 20 years since they all now sell bigger trucks and more SUVs.

Perhaps the biggest perception problem is that American automobile companies GM and Ford – Chrysler is now German-owned – squander all their money on plants overseas and foreign automakers build their factories in the United States. Foreign car lovers will surely point to Kia's plans to build its first-ever U.S. plant in Georgia, but they probably won't mention that they received $400 million in tax giveaways to do it, which translates into $160, 000 per job.

Among the many benefits for the foreign-owned company, your tax dollars are going to be used for road improvements surrounding the complex, complete with flower beds and other beautification features. Hey, as long as we're going to allow states to bid for private jobs with our public tax dollars, we might as well make it look good, right?

And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don't know or don't want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent more than $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas.

And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn't tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being "competitive" enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3 percent, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78 percent and 74 percent, respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate.

Fortunately for our benefit, the United States remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers. According to the Level Field Institute, U.S. car companies invest $16 billion in research and development annually, outpacing any other industry one could name.

Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM's combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who's counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media.

Japanese companies do employ 3, 600 American workers in R&D, but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers – 3, 600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65, 000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are – you guessed it – Ford and GM. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft.

Ford has recently made headlines as the American automaker with the most challenges to its future, but these challenges certainly are not because they "aren't making cars people want to buy." Toyota did outsell Ford in July, but since then, Ford has reclaimed the No. 2 spot.

GM has the highest market share, increasing over 2 percentage points from a year ago, so it apparently can't be accused of not making cars people want to buy either. Ford sales also are up in Europe, and Ford doubled its sales in China, where GM has the highest market share of any automaker.

GM also reported a 3.9 percent rise in August vehicle sales despite high gas prices and a supposedly slowing economy. And even though Toyota reported record sales that month, it couldn't match the non-record setting sales volume of Ford. GM's sales rose 17 percent in October from the year-ago month and Ford sales rose 8 percent the same period.

And for all the talk about the lack of fuel efficiency of American automakers, it seems three-fourths of all automakers failed to meet Europe's improved fuel-efficiency standards intended to cut carbon-dioxide emissions. Japanese and German automakers topped the list of the study's worst performers, but according to an environmental group's study, GM's Opel division and Ford both "come out well."

In closing, I'll leave some encouraging numbers for those of us who actually like to root for and support the home team. The J.D. Power 2006 Vehicle Dependability Survey reports that Mercury, Buick and Cadillac (in that order) grabbed the No. 2, 3 and 4 spots to beat Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW and everyone else (except Lexus) in having the least number of problems per 100 vehicles.

IF that were the case, GM wouldnt be in the situation they are in now. GM abandoned the sport compact and economy vehicles, for the last 15 or so years. Its catching up with them now, considering the accomplishments Honda and Toyota have made over the last 20 or so years. GM is implementing forms of Variable Valve Timing in their cars. Their following the Germans in direct injection and they still use pushrods technology. Pretty soon, the vette will be powered by DOHC, jsut like the V6 Caddy. So no, they are not the leading forefront on technology.

Technology for the sake of technology is dumb at best. Name me another production engine with around 500hp (more importantly with a flat torque curve) that weighs under 400lbs.
The only reason GM would switch back to DOHC for the vette is to make some really big power while still passing emissions and keeping the car very streetable.

Without the US it will just be a smoldering pile of rubble as they had to get outside help to rebuild. Japan DEPENDS on exporting products to the US and they depend on importing resources from the US. Japan has nothing. They are totally resourceless. :gtfo: Without a good product and image they would wither away.

Just because GM doesn't throw every little piece of tech into their cars doesn't mean they are crap. Who cares if they used a twist beam axle on small cars or leaf springs on some trucks. IRS is useless for the average driver and you won't find any coil springs for extreme weight applications.

The compact market is a giant turd when it comes to performance. The are driving cheap cars for a reason. Those people don't to spend money on anything but airfilters and rims. I have tried to sell them brand new stock engines for 1000 dollars and they would rather get a takeout from a junkyard for 200.

The Pontiac Vibe/Matrix was a partnership. Need I say more? If it was so one sided by would the other party be interested?

Pushrods mean a well priced engine that doesn't take up alot of space and building in terms of larger displacements. As the North American market allows this... Larger engines with are a hell of alot more driveable than import wind up toys. Less parts and cheaper to rebuild. Smaller timing chains and less chance of breaking. I guess I don't have to mention GM doesn't use cheap crappy timing belts as much.
You always have the factor that imports are going to cost more to fix and dependent on shipping parts in from overseas. But don't tell me that Toyota is all american because I know for fact that their timing componets are made in Korea, Taiwan, and other oriental countries.

Somewhat off topic...

I was at the wrecking yard the other day and in their showroom they had a LS1 out on a stand in one area and the new Mustang engine on another. I looked at the LS1 and thought I could pick it up if I really wanted to. Looked at the Mustang DOHC engine and it looks freakin huge! Especially those valve covers, looked like there is a lot of stuff under there.

Thank you, sir! People just don't believe it. They are all tools; so easily swayed by what people want them to hear!

Ford makes great cars in the European market and they are super popular for their affordability and fuel economy. The Ford kA and the Focus. If you ask me the European breed is picky when it comes to cars. Price and fuel econ matters to them so much more. But, I guess American cars are crap. :eyes:

In Michigan, there are cities of GM and Ford engineers constantly at work. I have seen it and it would blow you completely away if they only allowed the public to observe what happens in one day. Where are the Toyota engineers?? Probably back in the motherland plotting the next batch of misleading commericials.

From the Pittsburgh Post Gazette........


By Roger Simmermaker (Commentary)
Dec. 19, 2006

Ford and General Motors have taken turns besting the Toyota Camry in quality surveys for the past two years, but if you talk to many Americans – especially the ones who would never consider supporting home-based auto companies – you'd never know it.

Last year, the Chevrolet Impala beat the Camry in initial quality, according to J.D. Power & Associates. And Consumer Reports just announced that both the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan scored higher than both the Camry and the Honda Accord this year.

Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you'd almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies.

There's also the mythical perception that foreign automakers produce the most fuel efficient cars[/B] and that Detroit only makes gas-guzzlers when the truth is that all automakers – including Toyota, Honda and Hyundai-Kia alike – have allowed fuel economy to slide in the past 20 years since they all now sell bigger trucks and more SUVs.

Perhaps the biggest perception problem is that American automobile companies GM and Ford – Chrysler is now German-owned – squander all their money on plants overseas and foreign automakers build their factories in the United States. Foreign car lovers will surely point to Kia's plans to build its first-ever U.S. plant in Georgia, but they probably won't mention that they received $400 million in tax giveaways to do it, which translates into $160, 000 per job.

Among the many benefits for the foreign-owned company, your tax dollars are going to be used for road improvements surrounding the complex, complete with flower beds and other beautification features. Hey, as long as we're going to allow states to bid for private jobs with our public tax dollars, we might as well make it look good, right?

And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don't know or don't want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent more than $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas.

And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn't tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being "competitive" enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3 percent, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78 percent and 74 percent, respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate.

Fortunately for our benefit, the United States remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers. According to the Level Field Institute, U.S. car companies invest $16 billion in research and development annually, outpacing any other industry one could name.

Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM's combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who's counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media.

Japanese companies do employ 3, 600 American workers in R&D,[/B] but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers – 3, 600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65, 000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are – you guessed it – Ford and GM. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft.

Ford has recently made headlines as the American automaker with the most challenges to its future, but these challenges certainly are not because they "aren't making cars people want to buy." Toyota did outsell Ford in July, but since then, Ford has reclaimed the No. 2 spot.

GM has the highest market share, increasing over 2 percentage points from a year ago, so it apparently can't be accused of not making cars people want to buy either. Ford sales also are up in Europe, and Ford doubled its sales in China, where GM has the highest market share of any automaker.

GM also reported a 3.9 percent rise in August vehicle sales despite high gas prices and a supposedly slowing economy. And even though Toyota reported record sales that month, it couldn't match the non-record setting sales volume of Ford. GM's sales rose 17 percent in October from the year-ago month and Ford sales rose 8 percent the same period.

And for all the talk about the lack of fuel efficiency of American automakers, it seems three-fourths of all automakers failed to meet Europe's improved fuel-efficiency standards intended to cut carbon-dioxide emissions. Japanese and German automakers topped the list of the study's worst performers, but according to an environmental group's study, GM's Opel division and Ford both "come out well."

In closing, I'll leave some encouraging numbers for those of us who actually like to root for and support the home team. The J.D. Power 2006 Vehicle Dependability Survey reports that Mercury, Buick and Cadillac (in that order) grabbed the No. 2, 3 and 4 spots to beat Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW and everyone else (except Lexus) in having the least number of problems per 100 vehicles.

GM is implementing forms of Variable Valve Timing in their cars. Their following the Germans in direct injection and they still use pushrods technology. Pretty soon, the vette will be powered by DOHC, jsut like the V6 Caddy. So no, they are not the leading forefront on technology.


You do realize that the FIRST generation Firebird had an OHC engine. GM also had the GMO Quad 4 almost 20 years ago, the 3.4 DOHC, OHC engines in cavaliers in the 80's, on and on. They know what works well and at a low cost, and for the time being DOHC 4 valve engines isnt what works in larger vehicles where the GenIII/IV are used.

GM had a striaght 6 in the 60's used in their fullsize cars,
Here is a photo...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Pontiac_3.8_OHC_Straight-6.jpg/800px-Pontiac_3.8_OHC_Straight-6.jpg
OHC technology is old, Mercedes had some production cars in th 20 with it.

You do realize that the FIRST generation Firebird had an OHC engine. GM also had the GMO Quad 4 almost 20 years ago, the 3.4 DOHC, OHC engines in cavaliers in the 80's, on and on. They know what works well and at a low cost, and for the time being DOHC 4 valve engines isnt what works in larger vehicles where the GenIII/IV are used.

Don't tell the import guys GM had a 190 HP 4 cylinder long before they did. They will just get pissed offf. :D

:violin:

:funny:

You're fighting a losing battle against these brainwashed, sheeple/lemming, Econ 101, TOY/import :swing:ers. :jest:

Without the US it will just be a smoldering pile of rubble as they had to get outside help to rebuild.

Everyone forgets this a little too quickly, although I will admit, it was OUR fault for being so humane (YES, despite the horrors of Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki) and generous in this respect. We could have let them suffer, and enslaved/opressed them, like they would have done to U.S. (IF the tables were turned), after the War.

Ford and General Motors have taken turns besting the Toyota Camry in quality surveys for the past two years, but if you talk to many Americans – especially the ones who would never consider supporting home-based auto companies – you'd never know it.



THANK YOU.

You are all welcome. I get tired of hearing it, now I have to hear it from two import fan boys on a GM site. It is great they have an opinion, just take it to an import board.
I can't say the import guys make a bad product(except for VW/Audi), but it is not any better than the offerings from GM, Ford or Mopar.
I personally will never buy a foreign name plate. I would drive a Chevette or Citation before a brand new Lexus.
At least I am a man of conviction.
Oh yeah and News Flash, If your car says Toyota, Honda or the like...stop living in la la land it is an import it just helped increase our trade deficit

I would like to see how Toyota and Nissan try stay up, if the union were to come and grab them by the balls. Yes american cars got a bad rap, they are ulgy, or made like shit. My friends dad is considering getting Titan, why because he says american cars are crap. Yet my friend drives a 2003 Harley Davidson F150, and his dad is always asking to use it. Its people who have the "american cars=crap" mentality who don't give the lastest round of american cars the chance. When the world gets the thought that Japanese cars are the best around out of their heads, then just maybe people will realize how much better american cars are becoming. Don't get me wrong im not a straight import hater, but i would prefer to drive a European(preferably an Audi) car before a Japanese. And even then i would choose an american car over both. Some people i know always do the bullshit "what would you rather have" thing and they choose a cheap car compared to an expensive one. One that i laughed at was if i love american cars so bad what would i rather have a Cadillac CTS or a Mercedes E55 AMG. Well first of all how is that even fair? Second my choice would actually be the Cadillac STS-V. But lets say it was a bit more fair, a Cadillac CTS or a Mercedes C-class my choice the caddy. Honestly i like the look of the new CTS, better than the new c-class.
-Joel

Opinion? I'm laying down facts for you! Trade deficit? Thanks for the news flash Cronkite but, Japan made up 6.9% of the trade deficit for 8/07, compair that to our trade deficit to Canada of 18.3%. Once again you or missing the point. I'm not representing the automobiles themselves but, the way the company is operated and executed. You are all welcome. I get tired of hearing it, now I have to hear it from two import fan boys on a GM site. It is great they have an opinion, just take it to an import board.
I can't say the import guys make a bad product(except for VW/Audi), but it is not any better than the offerings from GM, Ford or Mopar.
I personally will never buy a foreign name plate. I would drive a Chevette or Citation before a brand new Lexus.
At least I am a man of conviction.
Oh yeah and News Flash, If your car says Toyota, Honda or the like...stop living in la la land it is an import it just helped increase our trade deficit

If Toyota adds to Japan's Gross National Product how is it an American car? Answer that one!

Show me where I ever said it was an american car and i'd be glad to pumpkin

I was talking to you?? No, seems like you got lost in your garden and were mumbling about something.

See how to utilize the quote button? Keeps everything nice and organized. Lets you know whom you are addressing. Guess they dont teach that outside the "garden"I was talking to you?? No, seems like you got lost in your garden and were mumbling about something.

Jake my dog allows me to drive his wagon. If I told you I almost won the damn thing I wouldn't be too far off. It's a Mazda. Today I sell Chevrolet. Since returning to the auto business in 2000 there isn't too much I haven't driven.

I would love to write a book. I could devote a chapter to each brand of vehicle. If the American driver serviced their American vehicle the same as the service that's recommended for the non American brand cars all brands would be equal. I've seen crap from all brands.

Jap vehicles don't impress me or scare me. Their dealer reps aren't the sharpest tool in the shed either. They do have many aggressive dealers in the US.To become a good sales person it's required to know where each vehicle shines over ever other vehicle. There is never any clear always a winer vehicle. If you can build value you'll sell the vehicle.

No one in the industry has a drop gate like Nissan. Take any gate and open it. They all fall to the limits of the safety strap except Nissan. Toyota Tundras have had Cam issues. Toyota Tundra is a copy of the best tracks from all brands, third or fourth try. That's what the Japs do. Tear your product apart then improve it. Or copy your friggen design...........

I don't care what you drive today have an open mind. 121,000 more people bought GM that was the post. Get your shorts out of your ass and listen. Wait until the new Malibu hits the dealers. Head to head with anything, on paper.

I also thing GM's warranty will be increased soon.

Wait until the new Malibu hits the dealers. Head to head with anything, on paper.

AGREED!!!! From what I've seen, it seems to be way more car (for the same or less $$) than the lemmings' f'ing Camry/Accord. The sad part is that even if it is 10x the car, the brainwashed sheeple populace will never give it a chance. :( I'm beginning to think that the Nippon's ad agencies have found a new form of ultra powerful, undetectable, subliminal ads. :lol:

BTW; any import fanboy who claims that this car's interior is "shitty, cheap, low grade domestic crap" should be taken out and f'ing SHOT!!!! The new Malibu's interior makes most of the import nameplate's shit look like an f'ing Yugo inside! :usa:

Opinion? I'm laying down facts for you! Trade deficit? Thanks for the news flash Cronkite but, Japan made up 6.9% of the trade deficit for 8/07, compair that to our trade deficit to Canada of 18.3%. Once again you or missing the point. I'm not representing the automobiles themselves but, the way the company is operated and executed.

OK, we get your point, genius. NO ONE is talking about the way the company is run, profitability, stock values, etc. The post was originally ONLY about numbers of vehicles sold, PERIOD.
Yes, we all know that your precious TOY is the best run, managed, efficient, legacy cost free, "epitome of ALL things every/ANYwhere". :eyes: :eyes:
Why, there are even aliens from other galaxies coming down here to visit them to see just how to "do things the right (TOY/kaizen) way", OK?? :rotflmao:

BTW, what was your beloved Japan's % of the AUTO INDUSTRY ONLY trade deficit???

See how to utilize the quote button? Keeps everything nice and organized. Lets you know whom you are addressing. Guess they dont teach that outside the "garden"

Then you just proved you were stupid by misunderstanding the rule. I didn't quote you nor have I ever sent correspondence to you. All the while I was speaking in public address yet you still assumed I was speaking to you. :eyes:

I don't see how you can make a tart response and have it cover up your failure. It doesn't work that way unless you are delusional.

I don't care who the car maker is as long as it gives U.S workers jobs. More and more import car makers are making cars here and giving US workers jobs.

I don't care who the car maker is as long as it gives U.S workers jobs. More and more import car makers are making cars here and giving US workers jobs.


I'm not sure if you understand the chain of events that happens here. America builds cars with American employees because that's just how it works. Japan and Co. come in and start selling their cars with more features and for less money, because they don't pay very well in Japan. That forces US companies to cut costs and send American jobs elsewhere. The amount of American jobs LOST due to the incursion into our market by Japan and Korea far outweighs the like MAYBE 12,000 they employ now. Many MANY more people than that worked here, but don't now because import brands fucked the market.:bang:

Also, it is a WIN, WIN, WIN for Japan, Inc. and the imports. They get; BIG tax breaks, to lose all import tariffs, and paid incentives to build/operate their "transplants" here. All the while getting kudos/accolades from; the media, the import ONLY buying sheeple public, and import fanboyzz. They get to decieve the lemmings into thinking that they employ more Americans than all of the domestics put together :bs: :rotflmao: (let alone just GM), while still using Nippon/Asian/foreign sourced/owned parts/suppliers.

Worst of all some of the sheeple/lemming dolts out there actually believe that Japan Inc./TOY/import nameplates do this out of "the goodness of their hearts" and real care and concern for U.S. citizens. :nono: :pissed: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :barf:

Also, it is a WIN, WIN, WIN for Japan, Inc. and the imports. They get; BIG tax breaks, to lose all import tariffs, and paid incentives to build/operate their "transplants" here. All the while getting kudos/accolades from; the media, the import ONLY buying sheeple public, and import fanboyzz. They get to decieve the lemmings into thinking that they employ more Americans than all of the domestics put together :bs: :rotflmao: (let alone just GM), while still using Nippon/Asian/foreign sourced/owned parts/suppliers.

Worst of all some of the sheeple/lemming dolts out there actually believe that Japan Inc./TOY/import nameplates do this out of "the goodness of their hearts" and real care and concern for U.S. citizens. :nono: :pissed: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :barf:




THANK YOU TOO lol.

THANK YOU TOO lol.

Concurance, hey I have had a few beers so let me tell ya. Fuck some imports.
I am not even a Ford guy, but I will tell you Ford, GM and Mopar make some good shit that can put the boring ass imports to shame
CTS-V
Impala SS
Grand Prix GXP
Fusion
Edge
Charger
All Priced like a fucking stupid Camary or Accord(minus the CTS-V) and will walk all ovet those import fuck sticks...No one wants to hear that though
God!! How did America turn into this? Man I get fucking mad.
ooooohhhhh. Toyota makes nothing I mean nothing that Americans cars can't overtake.:chug:

Ok, I'm old enough to go through 4 decades (well, 5 actually) of automobile highs and lows in the US. There is also the factor of living in Europe for 4 years - where *any* GM car if it can be imported will not skimp on cost to do so.

First off: trade deficit doesn't mean what most think. If there is a 17% automobile TD with Japan, there is most likely Japan TD to the US of 30%+ on industrial metals for those auto numbers. Its rough math left up to statisticians and quite simply means nothing when taken out of context or isolated to one slice of a huge global market. Leave it to the experts unless you are a politician.

While it may seem the domestics were sitting on their thumbs the last 20 years, the output of information may have been misleading intentionally. The best thing GM does is future market targeting - when it was time to re-introduce a muscle car they did. When it was time to re-introduce an aggressive truck, they also did that as well, as an example of course.

They are target market specific and always have been, I can appreciate that because they know generations of families will continue to purchase their products, very unlike Import companies who only have limited and biased information of whom they will be selling to. They missed the mark on many of their vehicles as Camry hit a top spot with an entire line falling by the wayside.

One of twenty is NOT good math. A generalization but it can be found over and over in each division of import product lines.

GM on the other hand sells a bit of everything of their line on a consistent basis. Ford has gone hit and miss the last 11 years but getting back on track (including the Lincoln Mercury divisions), Chrysler has remained exclusive once again following the same mindset that life lines, not theater lines sell their products over and over.

While some run skeered about high gas prices and dash to buy a new import that gets 24mpg, there are far more that stop and realize a domestic is getting 30mpg+ and it is equal if not better in service costs. Can't tell you how many of the GenXer's bought an import only to have it literally fall apart and as usual, look to what their parents and grandparents still have in the garage.
It is typically a domestic with the clock turned over and hours of information on how easy it is to work on your own car to keep it running between necessary dealership work. Or it is the older one in the garage with the 2 months just purchase outside...of the same manufacturer.

People don't mix and match their cars, trucks and SUV's. Their kids might but look at the numbers here alone - we shot from 22,000 members here to over 100,000 in two years. The average age is around 23 years old. The domestic aftermarket business is booming once again for the first time in almost 30 years. Pray tell, how does that happen if imports are the best sellers and overtaking the domestic market?

Another thing, why have so many Japanese auto companies changed their names in the last 30 years alone? I can't recall what Mazda has for a line since the 70's when the 626 became the first best selling import economy car. Datsun. What are they called now? A ton of car names from the 70's and 80's are...something else. Almost everyone reluctantly knows what the "K Car" was. A historic domestic dud for the really young kids who's parents would roll their eyes if they were asked.

GM, Ford, Chrysler. You can rattle off at least three of each that have never changed the names of the lines and specific cars. And you can do it easily going back 30 years with little effort and no google.

That should tell you something.

The hysteria over imports is nothing but a slight tick in what suddenly came to a screeching halt of overspending by many Americans.
They need to be reminded, periodically, the next vehicle they purchase will be there when the payments end and parts don't cost a fortune to replace and insurance is affordable. They will pass that along to their children starting yet another generation of what is reliable, tried and true, and all the while *someone* knew it was coming down the pike because they did their research, as usual :devil:

GM has missed the target more times in recent history than hit it. Having said that, today I think they are headed up the ladder in the right direction.

More new products are coming sooner. Sure I know the Camaro still isn't here and we really know little about it. As mentioned the Malibu is coming to show rooms soon. It's on a longer platform it's bigger and is expected to cost less then Toyotas or Hondas full size cars with the same options. GM has figured out over 80% of these cars have 4's. Most of the new Malibus will have 4's. Same features for less nice lines. But don't wait because GM is already building this platform today. Few future vehicles are ever going to have stand alone anything. That's why I think the new F base engine will have the new twin cam 6 found in the sport high end Equal Box. Chevrolet calls it something else. If you can't wait for the new Malibu go drive the high end Saturn.

Expect more future good news from me about GM. When it comes to cars always keep an open mind.

I am done listening to the Toyota fucks..,

I heard that!