Small Block & Big Block Chevy Specific - 1983 ta BBC or SBC

So what should i put in the 83? My buddy has two engines. A 400 SBC for 250 or a 454 BBC for 300.

Should i build a high revving small block or a maciv torque Big block?

This will be a small at home street/strip car. That i will build slowly but right.

Does anyone else have a BB in a 3rd gen?

I know a guy with a big block in his car and let me tell you that you should prepare to mod the engine bay from what i hear it isnt that hard but if youre lazy like me just go with the sbc. I went with a 355 but i wish i had of put in a 400. But i heard that the big block is lots and lots of fun. Just my 2 cents.

Chris

tell your buddy i will buy his 454

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All out track only, then go BBC. Once you do all the mods to make it fit, you can go as wild as you want in the future.
Street only or mostly, SBC. Fits right in & you're set.

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Will be just a toy. Sorry azboostin i already got dibs lol. How much fabricating of the chassis will i have to do to get it and a m6 to fit?

I thought all you had to do was make the headers work in there but i wanna know what else too? I am going big block eventually, i need something to really rape a supra claiming 800 RWHP:)

From what I can tell there are no mods to my engine bay to make my BBC fit.

If its for fun go BBC all the way and stay far far away from a M6, go TH-400 and don't worry about it. In MOST cases any kind of real power and manual trannys don't mx when it comes to street cars.

I have hooker super comps in my car from what I can tell with lots of bends in them.

Only issue with them is you are limited in oil filter choices in the stock location. I think you have to move the motor mount locations, thats pretty much it.

Shit, i am going to have a T56 built, i am not worried about it, we have a sponsor here that goes 8s in the 1/4 with one, shouldnt be a problem:)

Go big or go home. The days of small blocks being the only "high revving" motors are long gone. Big block head technology is miles ahead of where it was when this stereotype was created. A well built BB with a little spray should be enough to hold that supra off.

I had Hooker BBC Super Comps on the car in the Avatar, when I first bought it. It used the stock motors mounts also. It was a tight fit and the headers are funky and on the small side. I would say it was worth it and the car weight tranferred great!

I agree with the above on the T400, but if you have to have a 6 speed you have to have one!

my buddy and i just finished puttin in his 406 in his 83 firebird on sunday. really easy swap from the 305, and the thing makes freakin crazy power. i would say if your gonna drive it on the street 400 all day they make great power. if your lookin for a trailer queen go BBC

A TH400 will not hold off a supra over 130 MPH with a good gear so a T56 is more fun anyways. If it was a track car for me a TH400 would be the winner for sure, a 3 speed on a daily driven small block....i would have nightmares about fuel.

Well, if i went all track i was going to do a 2speed powerglide or a th400 but it will be more for fun and shit so i just thought the t56 would be funner especially on the highway. Rowing through gears faster than my foot can hit the clucth peddle lol.

th400 has my vote unless its a trailor queen, then power glide

You can have a glide and still be a street car, been done many times. Just have to pick your gearing and tire size, may want to stay away from the highway though but maybe not.


My engine was built in like 1990, the pill in the shift light is 7000 RPM, Im sure there are a lot of guys in the 8k range pretty easy. I am sure I will be next year.

If you are going after a near 800rwhp supra and want a 6 speed you are pretty much limited to a BUILT 6 speed and really good suspension, rear, and tires. That or you are stuck with roll racing.

A buddy of mine was making like 700hp in his supra last year (now making a lot more once the motor is put back together). Weight will be about the same between the cars but to be safe you are going to need at least 900hp and have power come one pretty much instantly. 130mph plus? Your building a roll racing car honestly, more then likely safe to say that you will get you butt handed to you against a TH-400 car in a drag race.


Might want to do a search on RPM's at highway speeds for the guys with the 400, you might be very suprised. I am at a lower gear with my 3.73's and 28 inch tall tires then 4L60 guys with 4.10's.

I can't remmeber the RPM at 60 but I know it was only a few hundred more then my last car with a 4L60, 3.42's and factory tires.

You might want to put a lot of thought into this first, big HP and fuel economy don't go together, when you want big power other things suffer and just remember that because someone has a fast 6 speed car that works for them and lasts does not mean it will work or last for you ;)

PS, My Supra buddy sold his 6 speed and is about to put in a 400...... why? He got tired of fighting with clutches and blowing them.

That will be your main issue is the clutch, you will find one that will work and I am sure last but most of them I am sure suck driving around all the time. Thats what he hated, it was a race clutch, not a street clutch, it was engaged 100% or not at all.
Good luck to ya man.

I understand, i should be able to get my 89 down to 3000 with a big block and aluminum heads. I am not worried about gas mileage in a 3.73 geared car with a T56 vs a TH400 with the same gear. Suspension and tires will be dealt with, 3rd and 4th gens hook pretty good but on the street you have to deal with it. I will be looking for 700 HP on motor and a 250 or 300 hit of juice on top of that so instant power will not be an issue for me. I like driving my standard allot, my 95 and my 89 are sticks so its all good.

Gotta be cerefull man, going into second gear all motor I am doing 70mph, well that was on 7 cylinders........... and it was faster then you could blink an eye.

Just remember that when you want to go fast and have it last you pretty much never get everything you want and remember what I said about MPG and power :)

Just be carefull man, VERY few big power guys run them on the street, at least the ones still alive..........

Go with the 454

then tell your buddy i will buy his 400!!!

I just wish i could have it al done right now:(

Is a th400 a 4speed or 3speed auto?

Well my girl posed a good argument today. Money isnt a real issue, but it is a little bit. So she thinks i should buy both engines, lightly build the 400 to make a good street engine ~500hp. Than slowly build the 454 up to be like a baddass stroked, bored, boosted, track only engine. I could have the 400 in a running by winter to give me something to drive when it gets cold. And then have the BB built by next summer maybe. It would save money cause i already have a bunch of small block parts so i wouldnt have to buy much buy internals.

I would really want a auto for racing, but the manual would be just for fun. But you are right the clutch would pose a problem.

I dono let me shop around on trannys and see. I have a 700r4 right now, is that worthy to build? or should i sell it and get a th400?

A TH400 is a 3 speed. A 700R4 isnt worth building if you are going to beat on it. They just take too much money to run power thru and still dont hold. If Six Speed Inc can go 8s in their T56 car i am sure they can reccomend a clutch to keep me happy, i have no problem swapping a clutch every 3 months if i had to but im not going to be on the track enough to really have to do that.

Oh and remember that at any kind of high speed your car WILL NOT handle with a Supra if you have to make and sudden turns. Those cars are SUPER stable compared to ours.

A friend of mine destroyed his DSM when he had to make a sudden turn racing a Porsche....... Porsche made the turn just fine, he did not.

You could also go 4L80, thats pretty much a TH-400 with an overdrive.

4l80 might be a good optoin, and i dont have to worry about taking turns in that car, it wont be build for that. And trust me when i get done with this 540 i will be so much faster than a 800hp supra i will have time to slow down for the curve, than speed back up lol . Im planning on shooting a 300 shot it it also, and maybe down the road a couple 110mm turbos. lol lets see that supra run with that.

Twin 110's? I think you can get 6's with twin 88's threw a 5XX motor hahaha.

Id really look into that 4L80 honestly............

Yea i didnt even really think about the 4l80 but that is a good idea. I love turbo charged v8's so maybe if i have the money someday i will put some turbos on it. But anyhow. The girl is really convincing me off buying the 400 instead and building an all forged 427 or 454 sb. since i can still use the same altenator, starter, water pump, and all that shit that i already have on the 305. And i can just give it a good heads and cam package and rev it to like 9k. And spray it. I could have it build before summer is over, but the BB would probably take me till next summer at least.

Ive found some kits to build it to a 427 or 440 with a .570 lift cam that floats at 8k rpms, and dome pistons for nitrous. That can all be had for less than 2k.

Damn, a 4L80 is EXPENSIVE to build. I have WS6 suspension on my car, the thing that would hold me back on high speed manuevers would be the 15 inch wheels with tall side walls. My car is incredible with a 17 inch wheel and tire combo, kina scary.

Like I allways say guys......... going fast and it being reliable is NOT cheap.

Yep those trannys are not cheap to build put pice out a built TH-400 and a gear vendors overdrive, that overdrive alone is like two grand.

So in the end the 80 is not as expensive as you think.

Well, a TH400 only needs 3 gears to go down the trak. I will allways have a stick in my street car. The first pump gas drags was won by a 8 second chevelle with a big block and a stick. Not bad.

Well, a TH400 only needs 3 gears to go down the trak. I will allways have a stick in my street car. The first pump gas drags was won by a 8 second chevelle with a big block and a stick. Not bad.

If I remember right most faster stick cars use 3 gears sometines 4 to get down the track. ;)

Depends on rear final drive ratio and rpm capability of the engine. The chevelle was a 4 speed so it had the same final drive ratio of a TH400.

So then why not just have a 3 speed if you will end up with the same PRM???

Steeper first gear, ending in not having to have a ultra deep rear gear. It is a street car so it would help with the drivability.

Would it be cheaper to build a th400 or a 4l80e or put a 6speed in it. The reason im so stuck on the 6speed is cause it would be fun to drive around town, and i can put 4.56 gears in the back, have a good bottom end, and some rpm's to spare for the highway.

Dont get me wrong this wont be a daily driver, but i will have to drive it on the highway for some period of time to go to the track, or anywhere in this area.

Manuals are the shit on she street, it is why guys like us cannot get over them. It depends on who builds the trans. I am still trying to find a flywheel that will work on a T56 on a big block.

The way I look at is if you miss a gear you are done, clutches tend not to last, car is not as consistant, ect ect.

For those reasons if it was me I would go 4L80.

You can re-grear Auto cars, in the hear future after more motor work Ill go with a Rossler 400 with different gears ect ect and a Neil Chance stall......

Remember rear gearing and tire size is key, my RPM's are lower then a 4L60 with the same gears and next size shorter tire. I would not worry about the highway unless you are on it A LOT.

The cheapest and most reliable way would be to go 400, I would only go 80 if it was on the highway A TON and more of a long distance cruiser.

Yea, consistancy is not a concern for a car that is street driven as much as mine, i would be running other stick cars anyways. Not to mention i wanna do the Texas mile event:) That is where it would shine also. As for missing a gear, that is what a rev limiter is for right?

alright well i think i came to my decision. This isnt set in stone but i do have all the parts picked out.

Im going to get the 400. bore it, stroke it, and forge it. to a 427 or 454. Just depends on if i can take it that big or not. Then boost it. And probably spray it also.

454 out of a standard 400 block???? Don't think you can do that safe with a factory SBC block.

From what you are wanting to do I doubt a factory block will hold up or at least I would not want to try it. I would at least get a little M or something.

Deffinatly agree, i am only going to push my 400 build one day to 600ish on motor and maybe a 200 hit of dope due to seeing that work on several ocasions.

my friend always said once you go V8, you never go back, or at least never want to. But after seeing a 427 man omg dam once you go big block you never go small agian

Build a big small block, I run a all forged 427 dart small block in my 67C10 with Victor Heads and Crower Hydraulic Roller. The engine is moderately built (10.5cr) & pushing 550hp and 550TQ with a 700R4 trans & 4.10 gears, the trans has been beefed and I have been beating the shit out of it for at least 4yrs and still runs like a champ. I also can get 16-17mpg average, I usually will twist the throttle a little bit.

Man, i could never go with 427 cubes if i can go 454+, but man a 700R4 is holding behind it? Sweet.

Man, i could never go with 427 cubes if i can go 454+, but man a 700R4 is holding behind it? Sweet.

I think Max small block size currently is either 472 or 477CI, To go to a 4" & up stroke and keep some long gevity you really need to start looking at a tall deck. One of the max differences of the BB vs the SBC is the heads, they can breath so much better, down sides are wieght and fuel economy. I have yet to hear anyone getting anything descent out of a 454 big block. I have in the past ran a 427BB in a 68 Chevelle I had many years ago get very descent milage.

Well, a big block is the same weight with aluminum heads as a small block with all cast iron. They did make a 472 small block with 675 HP on 93 octane, it had a retarded price tag on it though.

alright well i think i came to my decision. This isnt set in stone but i do have all the parts picked out.

Im going to get the 400. bore it, stroke it, and forge it. to a 427 or 454. Just depends on if i can take it that big or not. Then boost it. And probably spray it also.

:eyes:

You do realize how thin these blocks are to begin with right? Build a 427 sb on a stock block casting and see how long it lasts before over heating every day. Let alone add a power adder or two behind it..... Big block would be better for this kind of car or just stick with a 383 sbc so if you have a little meat left to the block anyway if you want to add power adders to the mix..

my friend always said once you go V8, you never go back, or at least never want to. But after seeing a 427 man omg dam once you go big block you never go small agian

Once you go Big Block you never go back....

Big block is the way. That 454 .060 with a 4.25' stroker crank is now 496 inches. 600 streetable horsepower is just a cam & decent heads away, thats just motor. Add a small 150 shot and it should run mid 10's in a 3500 pound car.

We built a 496 Blown BBC and put it in a 88 Firebird a couple years ago fit was good and minimal mods to get it in but we backhalved it due to the weak drivetrain ...used a TH-400 and 9" with ladder bars..

Big block is the way. That 454 .060 with a 4.25' stroker crank is now 496 inches. 600 streetable horsepower is just a cam & decent heads away, thats just motor. Add a small 150 shot and it should run mid 10's in a 3500 pound car.

My car with a 468 CUI 636 ish lift sollid flat tappet cam and a 150 shot was runing 10.4@136 spining and 11.1's or so on the motor. Full weight car and with heads that needed a lot of porting on the exhaust side.

We never ran the car with the blower ( no blower restraints) but it dynoed at over 1100 HP ..
I later turned it into a DD with a 408 BBC with a 700 carb and a small nitrous kit ..
ran 13.30 on the motor with no suspension tuning on MT sportsmans , never got a chance to tune it out before winter ..
sold it last fall because of the economy ...

I ran in the 10.30's on the motor with a 377 SBC :) 4.145 bore x 3.50 stroke.