Automotive News, Media & Press - Last Hurrah for the brawny American Car?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23747161/wid/18298287/

Looks like we're seeing the end of the era. I think the C6 Corvette Z06 is going to go down as the best that we will have to offer. I dont see too much for the C7, plenty of talk about making it a smaller car with a smaller engine to increase MPG. That is fine, but I am a big man and I like my big car, I dont want an S2000. I want to buy a Pontiac G8 for a daily driver when I can afford it and buy a used C6Z06 for fun in a few years and keep what could be the best the Americans will ever have to offer again.

35mpg by 2020? :( thats gonna be the killer , unless they can make 400HP Electric cars

The Tahoe got the "Green Award" so who's to say that Muscle cars can't have 400hp with hybrid based engines, take a look at the Tesla...it's @ 248hp in 2007/2008 http://www.fast-autos.net/vehicles/Tesla/2007/Roadster/ . We may have cars producing 500hp on electricity by 2015, it may not be our standard muscle car but it will definitely have some muscle:punch:

Electric cars are probably a decade if not more away from being feasible. The technology does not exist to make them a direct replacement for gasoline which will drive cars for the forseable future, or most of our lifetimes.

Hybrids are nice but no substitute for making cars smaller and lighter which is what actually saves fuel. Hybrid systems add substantial weight and complexity to automobiles as well as cost.

This again? You know there's like 90 threads about this sky is falling crap already. Do we really need another one?

We don't need electric crap, or crapier pansy hybrids. Diesel, HCCI, VVT, DI, and AFM will make big power and get good mpg (easily 35mpg).

Furthermore, CAFE is an AVERAGE of the vehicle product fleet, AND it's weighted by sales. This won't affect the Corvette and G8 all that much.

A 7 second diesel - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmZgmK4nk0w

GM's HCCI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOKZBAJM180

So far we have DI + VVT, and AFM, but not all combined. (and it needs to be for HCCI) So there is still plenty of gains to be had. Plus, there is the next-gen Duramax that is packaged to fit anywhere the Gen III and IV small blocks fit.

If cam-less valves can be perfected, then you could have the ultimate in VVT and go from tame, fuel efficient operation, to insane "cam" specs and make monster power, all smoothly and on the fly.

There is PLENTY of life left in big power internal combustion.

Give me insane diesel power and I'll make my own fuel.

Muscle cars will be around as long as there are ppl like us who wanna go fast...as for me I want a 5th gen M@ro with a turbo diesel!!!

W

Does anyone understand electric cars have to be powered by some means? Why have inefficient already over drawn power plants "charge" up your cars. This whole thing is ridiculous, our power plants, and factories (nuclear included) produce more pollution and harmful byproducts than our cars. Yet the government is targeting the "everyday polluter" because we can be TAXED easily. These batteries and chemicals are costly to replace, need to be replaced often, and are not easily disposed of. Not to mention global warming went out the window now that they have found record low 100 years temperatures around the world, and see that " reduced solar activity" plays a larger role than previously thought.

Rather than solve the real problems, as always they are attempting to band aid the situation with money. They are a bigger business than any other in the nation, yet people put faith in them so easily, and trust so quickly when they "regulate" your freedom...

The fact is, many electric vehicles self generate their own recharge. Once this can be optimized, an internal combustion engine will become a dinosaur really. Have you not seen some of the electric cars with a motor for each wheel? Numbers over 400hp/tq are easily attainable with electric motors and the power is linear. There is no curve on the dyno, instant power.

still doesn't take into account for retooling, disposal, replacement - electric cars are expensive and not very user friendly when repairs are concerned. Not to mention the energy you put into pushing the car can never be fully recovered even if electric generating rubbers are used in conjunction with some current generating device on each wheel...If it was zero point energy, I'd join the band wagon too.

JMHO

Also the vehicle to which you refer, the mini cooper? If i remember correctly the motors were too large and forced the team to junk mechanical brakes, which was the first no no for a viable mass produced car. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php

It also still utilizes a small ICE to recharge, still requiring the use of fossil fuels, and only acheiving 80mpg. I'm sure weight is a major factor as well, even for that little thing.

Give me insane diesel power and I'll make my own fuel.

Damn right. Audi will have a 6L twin turbo diesel in their Q7 SUV. 500 hp and 737ft.-lbs. toruqe. Hell Yes. Imagine that monster in any of our sub-4,000lb cars!!!!!! Shit, that would be the ultimate swap into a '94-'96 Impala SS.

The Tahoe got the "Green Award" so who's to say that Muscle cars can't have 400hp with hybrid based engines, take a look at the Tesla...it's @ 248hp in 2007/2008 http://www.fast-autos.net/vehicles/Tesla/2007/Roadster/ . We may have cars producing 500hp on electricity by 2015, it may not be our standard muscle car but it will definitely have some muscle:punch:The Tesla is like $100,000. Not quite affordable yet. But, if it were $30,000, I would probably roll in one. I'd still have my Trans Ams, though!!!

The fact is, many electric vehicles self generate their own recharge. Once this can be optimized, an internal combustion engine will become a dinosaur really. Have you not seen some of the electric cars with a motor for each wheel? Numbers over 400hp/tq are easily attainable with electric motors and the power is linear. There is no curve on the dyno, instant power.

Mario said it best - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wyof_pHSNI

No effin way I will ever give up ICE. I don't care what fuel is used, just so long as it's burned!

Prius, the vaunted hybrid, does about 45mpg in the real world. The VW Lupo Diesel does 70mpg under the same conditions with the same driver. Use less fuel and save the world? Get a diesel. Banks is hit the 7s on the strip and 220 mph on the salt with diesel pickup trucks. Audi won LeMans with a diesel, and triggered a fad among the prototype racers. And best of all, there's a slew of methods to manufacture fuel for a diesel since they'll burn almost anything (Rudolph Diesel's first engine ran on peanut oil - bio-fuel, not bio-diesel).

And of course there's new yeast that will break down switch grass and presumably most any plant, so corn is no longer necesary for alcohol.

To hell with electics. lol

So long as it is renewable. The oil will dry up some day...who knows when?

So long as it is renewable. The oil will dry up some day...who knows when?
Oil drying up is another myth...Last I checked, oil was "all natural" as well.

If the earth made it, uh, what's to say it's not still making it?

It probably is still making it, but the process takes millions of years.

The Tesla is like $100,000. Not quite affordable yet. But, if it were $30,000, I would probably roll in one. I'd still have my Trans Ams, though!!!

It isn't affordable yet but I just like the fact that even now we can make fast and fairy efficient cars and in the future who knows...we may even say "I would never trade my electric *insert name* car for anything!" For now I as well will stick to my SS :D

It isn't affordable yet but I just like the fact that even now we can make fast and fairy efficient cars and in the future who knows...we may even say "I would never trade my electric *insert name* car for anything!" For now I as well will stick to my SS :D

No exhaust note, no rumble, no sale. Electrics are for pansys. :D

:P

:engarde:

Well, I am going to start developing a "simulated V8" noise emitter. I know they will be a hot seller when the time comes :D

everyone gets all worked up and think the world is coming to an end with all this fossil fuel stuff being brought up...i dont think there is a shortage or slow production...i think all the raises in fuel costs is because the oil guru's have realized that people are still going to buy gas no matter what the price...sure we are going to complain...but still buy it...and the oil companies are getting rich...(along with current president)...

Well, I am going to start developing a "simulated V8" noise emitter. I know they will be a hot seller when the time comes :D

lol, that's even more lame because that's rice. :P

and the oil companies are getting rich...(along with current president)...

:eyes:

He can't make them lower their prices. Only Congress can do that, and if they do, they overstep their bounds by interfering with the free market. :bang:

Dude cam less engines are going to be insane monsters! Just wait and see

The stone-age didn't end because we ran out of rocks. We just found a better way of doing things.


I believe the same thing will hold true about fossil fuels one day.




Obviously we have a means to go with an alternative route for fuels, but it's something that's going to take a real kick in the ass to get started. Oil companies are going to do everything within their power to keep getting that paper, and the prices haven't gotten high enough to really cause an uproar yet. Give it some time, and look at how far we've come recently in alternative fuels. The internal combustion engine will keep on truckin', whether it's powered by petroleum or corn whiskey. We'll be alright.

what no one seems to realize (maybe someone did, i didn't read this entire thread, because there seems to be about 20 of these threads every day posted, all saying the same thing), is that the EPA regulations are meant to raise the OVERALL fuel efficiency of any one manufacturer's entire fleet of cars. what that means is that they will take an average of the fuel efficiency.

for example, if an automaker sold only two models of cars, 75% of them being slow econo-boxes that get 45+ mpg, and 25% of them being high-performance cars that get 25mpg, and their goal is to have a fleet average of 35mpg, they would already be 5mpg over their fleet goal, at 40mpg average.

no one is saying that every car that the manufacturer produces has to meet the goal, just the majority of them. if they just spend a little time improving the high-performance cars' mpg by 5% - 10%, and the rest of their cars by 10% - 20%, while still maintaining their current power levels, then the average enthusiast will see very little overall effect on their beloved performance vehicles, while the overall general public will be thrilled to buy their slow econo-boxes and benefit from better mpg.

performance vehicles aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Muscle cars are the way of the past. I'm actually thinking about trading in my SS on a nice 335I. Fuck these gas prices and V8's anymore.

Muscle cars are the way of the past. I'm actually thinking about trading in my SS on a nice 335I. Fuck these gas prices and V8's anymore.

haha the irony...

I believe it's the last hurrah at least for the large displacement pushrod motors.
Tom

:eyes:

He can't make them lower their prices. Only Congress can do that, and if they do, they overstep their bounds by interfering with the free market. :bang:

And congress has never done that :eyes:

I believe it's the last hurrah at least for the large displacement pushrod motors.
Tom

Someone correct me if I am wrong... but last I checked my old as a rock tech Pushrod LS1 in my TA gets better mileage than any new Honda S2000 with their little four banger in there and has more power. Even the Nissan 350Z falls in this boat.

Hell even look at the Mustang 4.6 motor. I would be surprised if the LS1 got worse mileage than it did.

Big Cubes doesn't automatically mean crappy mileage, this isn't 1970. :eyes:

Agreed, but I'm looking toward the future cafe standards. Those are going to VERY hard to meet with these big motors. To meet this, I see performance cars going to small OHV designs with forced induction. I think the latest vettes,camaros, and challengers will be collectors as they will be the last of that era.
Tom

Agreed, but I'm looking toward the future cafe standards. Those are going to VERY hard to meet with these big motors. To meet this, I see performance cars going to small OHV designs with forced induction. I think the latest vettes,camaros, and challengers will be collectors as they will be the last of that era.
Tom

The key will be light weight and the right gearing. Displacement is much less relevant. The C6 Corvette with 400hp, and 3200lbs already achieves 27mph. Drop the weight, add DOD, and it will be much higher. Either way only the GM performance models will be using the LSx engines, the rest of the fleet with make up the difference in gas mileage.

Agreed, but I'm looking toward the future cafe standards. Those are going to VERY hard to meet with these big motors. To meet this, I see performance cars going to small OHV designs with forced induction. I think the latest vettes,camaros, and challengers will be collectors as they will be the last of that era.
Tom

CAFE - Corporate AVERAGE Fuel Economy

The other problem to contend with is the increasing crash safety standards which increses weight. This is why the new challenger and camaro are so heavy. I don't know the details of the new regs. Are they exempting trucks? If not, there going to have to sell whole lot of fishbowls to get their numbers up.

The other problem to contend with is the increasing crash safety standards which increses weight. This is why the new challenger and camaro are so heavy. I don't know the details of the new regs. Are they exempting trucks? If not, there going to have to sell whole lot of fishbowls to get their numbers up.

The new Challenger and Camaro (although we don't have the real weight for the Camaro) are heavy because they are built off of large sedan platforms. Build them off of their own unique sports-coupe platform and they would be a good deal light (but also more expencive).
Trucks have a different standard to meet than cars.

Your partially correct. The challenger is based off the LX platform; minus 2 doors and some length. It should have been lighter than the current 300 and charger. It is not due to the new regs for side impact collision. This is also why the mustang is nearly 2 tons as is the camaro which is a much smaller car than the challenger.

Well, I am going to start developing a "simulated V8" noise emitter. I know they will be a hot seller when the time comes :D

Hell I could use one of those right now on my shitty sounding Z/28 . F#*k , just record a full exhaust V8 Ford & play it back real loud . :D :eyes:

You've never put a good exhaust system into your F-body if you think it sounds shitty enough to put a Ford sound player in your car...though I admit I like how the Mustang howls, ANY LS-V8 will sound like a damn big block if you take the exhaust off at the cats...adding a muffler just sweetens the tone!

If you don't like how LS-engines sound, don't buy them! For an interesting swap, have you ever thought about SOMEHOW getting a Northstar crammed into your F-Body? They sound EVIL with exhaust...

Does anyone understand electric cars have to be powered by some means? Why have inefficient already over drawn power plants "charge" up your cars. This whole thing is ridiculous, our power plants, and factories (nuclear included) produce more pollution and harmful byproducts than our cars. Yet the government is targeting the "everyday polluter" because we can be TAXED easily. These batteries and chemicals are costly to replace, need to be replaced often, and are not easily disposed of. Not to mention global warming went out the window now that they have found record low 100 years temperatures around the world, and see that " reduced solar activity" plays a larger role than previously thought.

Rather than solve the real problems, as always they are attempting to band aid the situation with money. They are a bigger business than any other in the nation, yet people put faith in them so easily, and trust so quickly when they "regulate" your freedom...

1. Nuclear is a non carbon source. Further, it is highly efficient due to most plants running full out almost 91% of the time.

2. The average price of electricity hasn't shot up like gas has.

3. Look at your power bill and think about how much energy was used and then compare it to how much gas you used and how much that cost you. Even if you charged a battery during peak hours it is half the cost of gasoline. Obviously, batteries have issues now. We don't know what the future will hold though.

4. Studies have already been done on the power grid. Not everyone in the states with buy one the next day. Not all loads in your house are on at the same time. The same between houses!