Automotive News, Media & Press - Harley-Davidson Understands It's Brand

It's rare when a company not only understands its brand, but knows when it is in desperate need of shoring it up and reaffirming its reason for being.

Harley-Davidson, which is facing the big cool down in sales after years of explosive growth, is just such a company. In a print ad that ran last Thursday (May 1) in USA Today, Harley let it all hang out with the following copy, which gets at the very essence of what makes the brand unique and special:

"We don't do fear. Over the last 105 years in the saddle, we've seen wars, conflicts, depression, recession, resistance, and revolutions. We've watched a thousand hand-wringing pundits disappear in our rear-view mirror. But every time, this country has come out stronger than before. Because chrome and asphalt put distance between you and whatever the world can throw at you. Freedom and wind outlast hard times. And the rumble of an engine drowns out all the spin on the evening news. If 105 years have proved one thing, it's that fear sucks and it doesn't last long. So screw it, let's ride."

If you want to read more, go to www.harleydavidson.com/screwit.

Congratulations to all involved at Carmichael Lynch in Minneapolis, and here's to Mark-Hans Richer, for making it happen. - PMD

http://www.autoextremist.com/

thanks for making me miss my harley, trishield....

yep cause fat, old overweight men who fear corners and speed need something to ride too.....Thanx Hardley....I mean Harley:D



I hope Buells new sportbike will wake up America's soul for a performance motorcycle even tho it has an Austrian motor

yep cause fat, old overweight men who fear corners and speed need something to ride too.....Thanx Hardley....I mean Harley:D



I hope Buells new sportbike will wake up America's soul for a performance motorcycle even tho it has an Austrian motor

How Juvenile ! :eyes:

To me there is nothing tough about a Road ridin Harley, the dragsters impress me but they are far from street going. But until they make the VR1000 or some sort of bike that pushes the performance limit I will not be impressed with Harley D's. The only thing that company has is smart marketing and advertising. People would be pissed if GM made the new Camaro with 1967's tech when they expected to have a modern muscle vehicle and charged 3 times more then its worth. :D

yep cause fat, old overweight men who fear corners and speed need something to ride too.....Thanx Hardley....I mean Harley:D



I hope Buells new sportbike will wake up America's soul for a performance motorcycle even tho it has an Austrian motor


i could not have said it better myself!!!

It's rare when a company not only understands its brand, but knows when it is in desperate need of shoring it up and reaffirming its reason for being.

Harley-Davidson, which is facing the big cool down in sales after years of explosive growth, is just such a company. In a print ad that ran last Thursday (May 1) in USA Today, Harley let it all hang out with the following copy, which gets at the very essence of what makes the brand unique and special:

"We don't do fear. Over the last 105 years in the saddle, we've seen wars, conflicts, depression, recession, resistance, and revolutions. We've watched a thousand hand-wringing pundits disappear in our rear-view mirror. But every time, this country has come out stronger than before. Because chrome and asphalt put distance between you and whatever the world can throw at you. Freedom and wind outlast hard times. And the rumble of an engine drowns out all the spin on the evening news. If 105 years have proved one thing, it's that fear sucks and it doesn't last long. So screw it, let's ride."
:werd: :usa:

To me there is nothing tough about a Road ridin Harley, the dragsters impress me but they are far from street going. But until they make the VR1000 or some sort of bike that pushes the performance limit I will not be impressed with Harley D's. The only thing that company has is smart marketing and advertising. People would be pissed if GM made the new Camaro with 1967's tech when they expected to have a modern muscle vehicle and charged 3 times more then its worth. :D

I don't think that's the point for a lot of HD fans or the brand.

There are plenty of modern vehicles that will school a muscle car new and old in the straights, including the upcoming Camaro.

Like an HD motorcycle I don't think just numbers or beating everything on the street is what the allure of muscle cars is about. It's about style, it's about a distinct American badassness, it's about the sound of the engine and the way it makes you feel cruising it with the windows down and the response you get from others.

I don't think that's the point for a lot of HD fans or the brand.

There are plenty of modern vehicles that will school a muscle car new and old in the straights, including the upcoming Camaro.

Like an HD motorcycle I don't think just numbers or beating everything on the street is what the allure of muscle cars is about. It's about style, it's about a distinct American badassness, it's about the sound of the engine and the way it makes you feel cruising it with the windows down and the response you get from others.


Not for me, if its loud and rumbles....it better shit and get....I Hate a Dog thats all bark and no bite. My Bike may scream into high RPMS but at leasts its going somehwhere sounding like an F1 Car rather then sounding like a 454 with a solid lift cam and huge duration cam and performing like a stock Ford pinto when u mash the gas:jest: HD let America down in the world of motorcycle competition and it also let its little brother down (Buell) by not making a American motor to compete with the Italians and Japenese....The Italian's have Bad ass V-Twins that are almost on par with the 1000 Liter Japenese Bikes......Why does America not have one? HD and Buell are the only two real big american motorcycle brands in the states that have a chance at competing with the Large Japenese manufacteres. I'd love to ride a fast V-twin sport bike or naked bike but as of yet USA doesnt make one.

i like to see you mouth that off to a hells angel, dont you have to get a neon green or blue jacket to match your bike or whatever color....like a bitch matching her purse to her outfit. Oh snap, let me wheelie in the middle of a public road and color cordinate my outfit to be super cool, not to mention my bad ass helmet that has a fake mohawk on it. You will get there faster by the buslenghts true, but when your on an Harley...let the world wait for you.


Face it a crotch rocket can try all it wants, but it will never be as badass as a big harley or a choper. As for your dog metaphor, well your greyhound might have the speed but our little slow pitbull would still get more respect

I would think a guy with a 70 camaro would appreciate a crusier.

i like to see you mouth that off to a hells angel, dont you have to get a neon green or blue jacket to match your bike or whatever color....like a bitch matching her purse to her outfit. Oh snap, let me wheelie in the middle of a public road and color cordinate my outfit to be super cool, not to mention my bad ass helmet that has a fake mohawk on it. You will get there faster by the buslenghts true, but when your on an Harley...let the world wait for you.


Face it a crotch rocket can try all it wants, but it will never be as badass as a big harley or a choper. As for your dog metaphor, well your greyhound might have the speed but our little slow pitbull would still get more respect

I would think a guy with a 70 camaro would appreciate a crusier.


I respect performance, My motto is speak softley but carry a big F'n stick. Plus mouthing off to the hell's angel I wouldnt even try and not cause they ride Harleys but becuase them dudes will kill you, same as the Bloods, Thirteens, etc.....there gangs not a brand. And not all of us sportbikers, crotchrockerters wheelie, or stunt, I stunted when I was 10yrs old on a BMX bike, I ride a Sport Bike cause I like taking corners, you should see my sidewalls:D A Harley rider would shit a brick if the came up on a 30mph corner at 80mph:jest:...me I twist the throttle more and lean that bitch:devil: And your pitbull analogy is more like a Pitbull that acts like a poodle, stomped your foot and it runs for a corner. :D

Ravenous, you are missing the point. Not everyone rides a motorcycle because they want to haul ass and drag knees in the corner. Its about being on the open road, cruising with more freedom than you can feel within a car. I get a completely different feel on my bike vs my cars, bikes are just fun to ride, period. They do not have to be blazing fast for me to enjoy them. Same with cars, I don't buy all of my cars because they haul ass or corner well. My 454 '70 Chevelle is a turd (probably mid 14s) but I love driving it. It is what it is, and I appreciate that.

If you can't appreciate just cruising on a rowdy HOTROD sounding Harley, for the pure and simple pleasure of riding, then that is a shame. I can appreciate sportbikes for their purpose, and V-twins for theirs. I don't make negative comments and come off like an assclown about the other type, like you are doing.

The HD scene is a lot like the LSx scene, folks have a passion for something, they identify with it's culture, and they want to hang out with those people. The HD culture does not speak to me personally but I still like how some of the bikes look.

The HD scene is a lot like the LSx scene, folks have a passion for something, they identify with it's culture, and they want to hang out with those people. The HD culture does not speak to me personally but I still like how some of the bikes look.

Except the people in the LSx scene are 20 years younger than most harley riders.

Well im an assclown cause I feel HD has let America down, we make awesome sportcars that compete in the world circuits and now have the Zr1 which will be able to take on the worlds best performance cars but cant seem to make a sport bike worth a piss? HD let Buell down to the point that company had to go to Austria to get a V-twin to make there new sportbike competitive. Ducati makes crusiers..nice ones to, they also make awesome sportbikes that give the japenese bikes a run for there money on the MotoGP circuit...they won lasted year with Stoner on his Ducati. I just wish HD would offer more, even a Naked sportbike like the Monster or Speed Triple would be a breath of fresh air. The V-rod has an awesome motor, but alot of the HD hard core nut huggers are so stuck back in the 1960's they dont even consider them a true Harley.....how stupid is that?

Not gonna get into a pissing contest on this, but I have an opinion:

I started riding on a Honda, have owned both HD and Honda / Kawasaki crotch rockets (ride a GPZ-750 turbo, for 1984 - 86/7 it was flat out bad!). Had the speed fix on the bike, now I prefer to cruise now. Why did I pick a Harley, same reason you choose a Camaro, or a T/A, or whatever, something that can be described.
Does Harley use older style air-cooled V-Twins.....yeah, so what? When your liquid cooled gets a leak, I can still drive. Yeah, she isn't as fast as some bikes, she does weigh almost 1000 lbs. But 110 HP / 111.5 ft/lbs torque is not bad for her at all. We drop about 400 lbs off her, not too shabby, not the fastest I know, but not shabby.
But the part I hate (bikers and cars alike) is to see some moron race up and in between traffic, weaving in and out, etc. Save it for the track, or much less populated roads. Have fun and such, don't screw with other people cause you think it is badass to "look" cool. You don't.
Most Harley riders are just fine with the V-Twin, if they weren't they wouldn't ride one. Just like I wouldn't drive a T/A. Big deal, each his own.
Flame if you want, but I have yet to hear a Jap, German, Italian bike sound as good as a V-Twin with Reinhardts on. If I wanted a pissed off bee sound, I would buy a Civic and slap a Folgers can on it! :)
Now stop getting pissed off figuring out how to flame the above, get in/on the ride of your choice, and enjoy the road. Or enjoy the bedroom if the ride is like in the multimedia hotties thread. :)

not much of a pissing contest then a friendly discussion. I chose a TA cause of price, would have gotten a Camaro if the price was right but the TA I had already had a bunch of suspension mods done so it fit me at that time. The Camaro I have now was kinda given to me as a Father Son uber project, I had LS6 Heads, and Dad wanted to put an LS1 in something for the mere shits and giggles.
Plus not all Sportbikers are what people call Squids....Harley guys can be them too...Just not the wheelie part:D I hunt for curvey roads and alot of the guys I associate with are more curve hunters then shithead stunters. So please don not catagorize me with stunters just like I won't catagorize you with gangland mob bikers just cause you ride a Harley.
And last its true about to each there own, but Im just stating that you have a large company like HD with tons of potential but yet they would rather keep making the same machine they have been making since the 1970's....any other manufacture would have closed a long time ago for such a business move, only through smart advertising and product placement has HD been left to stay alive which is a great thing for one of America's last motorcycle manfuctuer but this image of "only cruisers" leaves a huge hole in the market for people who want an American V-Twin superbike which Harley could provide but narrow minded individuals keep holding it back. Buell does make a nice bike but as of now it is a none-american v-twin and not up to superbike par yet.


ps Ducati's, Moto Guzzi's, Triumphs, all make great sounding unique crusiers and sportbikes why cant Harley???? Cause of Narrow minded inviduals who think that Americas Number 1 and only large manfactuer of Motorcycles seems to be stuck in a dark 1970's hole. HD made dirtbikes, they made even scooters, they still even race dirttracks but for some reason u cannot buy a dirtbike from them? HD needs to expand.

I had a heavily modifed sportster, and i mean heavily. You should see the look on a rockets face when id jump them off the line at a light. Up to 35 or so then theyd run off and leave me. youd be surprised what you can get out of a HD, besides the lifestyle. And ravenous, what about buell??? Thats where i got all my parts. since they are the same company.

Ravenous, you are missing the point. Not everyone rides a motorcycle because they want to haul ass and drag knees in the corner. Its about being on the open road, cruising with more freedom than you can feel within a car. I get a completely different feel on my bike vs my cars, bikes are just fun to ride, period. They do not have to be blazing fast for me to enjoy them. Same with cars, I don't buy all of my cars because they haul ass or corner well. My 454 '70 Chevelle is a turd (probably mid 14s) but I love driving it. It is what it is, and I appreciate that.

If you can't appreciate just cruising on a rowdy HOTROD sounding Harley, for the pure and simple pleasure of riding, then that is a shame. I can appreciate sportbikes for their purpose, and V-twins for theirs. I don't make negative comments and come off like an assclown about the other type, like you are doing.

1st bold: its a 1970 Chevelle, it was top of the line for its time but its now 2008 so its a classic and expected to be slower then a modern car, now how would u feel if you bought a new 2010 SS Camaro and it used the exact same drivetrain from a 1967 Camaro but with a $40K sticker....you wouldnt buy it.

2nd bold: Sounding hotrod and being a hotrod are two different things, if it sounds badass it better perform badass and not run 14-13sec range. BMW and Trumiph can make a bike do both but also justify its price with modern tech. How long did HD take to get FI or ABS?

Im really just getting at that people should expect and demand more out of America's largest Motorcycle manfactuer.

Like HD exhaust? I like these....

Ducati 1098
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp9xPyI8mCY

Kawasaki KZ1000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWJ-g-u0EVw

Though I must admit, there is something nice about cruising on a Honda or HD V-twin...It does have MERITS to it, the people you meet, etc....

But it is not a STEED. You do not ride it like a horse, more like a La-Z-Boy or a barber chair.

Sure, it's 5000 times more comfy over the long haul, but if you've seen one cruiser, you've seen 95% of them. Give me a Cafe' or Sporter anyday...

....The Italian's have Bad ass V-Twins that are almost on par with the 1000 Liter Japenese Bikes......

1000 liter?? That's going to be one big SOB.

1000 liter?? That's going to be one big SOB.
I was thinking that as well. :jest:


Seriously though, the advertisement strikes at the exact heart of traditional American values and a truely American company. Nothing more, nothing less, and for those that attacked the company for perhaps their "inferior" product and technology, they have understood their customer since they hit the harshest of times and needed a bailout (or at least a healthy dose of reinvention).

Tough times are just that, and the US economy, if untinkered with by politicians, usually finds itself back at the top of the food chain.

Now, if we could just infuse some of that black gold into the economy from OUR shores, we'd be all set.

i don't think harley does so well because they make great bikes, they do well because they sell so many accessories. I can't tell you how many minivans i see driving down the interstate with harley stickers on them. Just imagine all the stuff people that actually own harleys buy to go with them.

Ravenous, you really should expand your appreciation of all bikes. Do that instead of wasting time preaching why H-D should be building sportbikes :rolleyes: and expanding their niche.

Could H-D build a fast sportbike? I don't see why not. Does H-D need to build a sportbike to stay in business? Obviously not. They have their niche, and thousands of riders appreciate them, and buy them. Most Jap companies copy them with their cruisers. I don't see H-D copying Jap bikes for sportbikes. Most of us that own a Harley appreciate what they are, we could give a shit that they aren't a Hayabusa. I'm not obsessed with dragging knees or popping wheelies, I have zero interest in doing so on a bike. Been there, done that with dirtbikes and sportbikes. Each had their purpose, and now I like the v-twin cruisers. They remind me of old school musclecars, which I also enjoy and own.

You seem to base your entire opinion on them because they aren't as fast as sportbikes? That is gay. You are being ignorant. That would be like saying your Chevy sucks because Bugatti builds a faster Veyron. Could Chevy build a faster car than the Veyron? Sure, but how come they don't? Chevy sucks then.

See how ignorant that sounds? How about the Hummer brand, none of those are fast, but they are still popular. They have a niche and a purpose, and a fan base.

its a 1970 Chevelle, it was top of the line for its time but its now 2008 so its a classic and expected to be slower then a modern car, now how would u feel if you bought a new 2010 SS Camaro and it used the exact same drivetrain from a 1967 Camaro but with a $40K sticker....you wouldnt buy it.

Funny, because I see people paying $100,000+ for old technology 1970 Chevelles. So you are wrong, people WOULD buy old technology in todays age. They still do! A few companies will build you a brand new 1969 Camaro with zero used parts....for about $60K bucks. These cars, like Harleys, have their niche and buyers. They aren't buying these cars because they are the fastest thing on the road. My 14 second Chevelle gets TONS more attention than a 10-second 4th gen f-body. I also enjoy driving it MORE than a newer car. It has attitude, and I appreciate the simple buttons and knobs and that feeling you get in a musclecar. Same thing with a Harley.

Now read this carefully, because I think you keep missing the points:

1. Not everyone gives a shit about being the fastest on the road.
2. Not everyone bases their purchases on being the fastest.
3. Not everyone gives a shit that their favorite brand doesn't compete in racing.
4. Learn to appreciate vehicles for what they are, and their intended purpose.

I know this, I love to drive my 2002 Camaro SS vert on the street as well as the strip or put the Stratos up on plane and trim back the 200 Johnson across the lake. But on Thursday I'm meeting up with my buds and we are riding our Harley's all day. Back to what I know my toys are AMERICAN. More folks need to keep their money here and buy from american companies. Nine ball you are right that is a great ad.

Ravenous, you really should expand your appreciation of all bikes. Do that instead of wasting time preaching why H-D should be building sportbikes :rolleyes: and expanding their niche.

Could H-D build a fast sportbike? I don't see why not. Does H-D need to build a sportbike to stay in business? Obviously not. They have their niche, and thousands of riders appreciate them, and buy them. Most Jap companies copy them with their cruisers. I don't see H-D copying Jap bikes for sportbikes. Most of us that own a Harley appreciate what they are, we could give a shit that they aren't a Hayabusa. I'm not obsessed with dragging knees or popping wheelies, I have zero interest in doing so on a bike. Been there, done that with dirtbikes and sportbikes. Each had their purpose, and now I like the v-twin cruisers. They remind me of old school musclecars, which I also enjoy and own.

You seem to base your entire opinion on them because they aren't as fast as sportbikes? That is gay. You are being ignorant. That would be like saying your Chevy sucks because Bugatti builds a faster Veyron. Could Chevy build a faster car than the Veyron? Sure, but how come they don't? Chevy sucks then.

See how ignorant that sounds? How about the Hummer brand, none of those are fast, but they are still popular. They have a niche and a purpose, and a fan base.



Funny, because I see people paying $100,000+ for old technology 1970 Chevelles. So you are wrong, people WOULD buy old technology in todays age. They still do! A few companies will build you a brand new 1969 Camaro with zero used parts....for about $60K bucks. These cars, like Harleys, have their niche and buyers. They aren't buying these cars because they are the fastest thing on the road. My 14 second Chevelle gets TONS more attention than a 10-second 4th gen f-body. I also enjoy driving it MORE than a newer car. It has attitude, and I appreciate the simple buttons and knobs and that feeling you get in a musclecar. Same thing with a Harley.

Now read this carefully, because I think you keep missing the points:

1. Not everyone gives a shit about being the fastest on the road. (Some do)
2. Not everyone bases their purchases on being the fastest.( Notice I drive a 750, im not the fastest nor care to be)
3. Not everyone gives a shit that their favorite brand doesn't compete in racing.(Americans should, nearly every car brand does)
4. Learn to appreciate vehicles for what they are, and their intended purpose.(I do, Just hate the Narrow minded individuals that Hold Americas last great brand back by putting it into a nich catagory)

1. If I paid veryon price id expect veryon performance, but I guess Harley guys already do that cause of the sheeplike customers their advertising produces.
2. a 1970 Chevelle is a "CLASSIC" not a 2009/2010 MSO having vehicle. Its rare. But last time I looked Chevrolet has advanced alot through the years or this site wouldnt have much revelance as the LS1 wouldnt exist.
3. harley did make a sportbike, the VR1000 which was the test mule for the V-rod motor which HD raced on the american circuits (awesome classic looking sportbike that alot of people think would have sold great on the market). If Harley doesnt want to make a Sportbike fine, stay in their niche then, but at least support Buell and make it more of a company then it is today. Everybody seems to me missing the point, USA has really only one large motorcycle manfactuer, make an off brand like Star from Yamaha did.

Now read this carefully, because I think you keep missing the points:

1. Not everyone gives a shit about being the fastest on the road.
2. Not everyone bases their purchases on being the fastest.
3. Not everyone gives a shit that their favorite brand doesn't compete in racing.
4. Learn to appreciate vehicles for what they are, and their intended purpose.


Well said.

Having been riding motorcycles for close to 35 years I have a great appreciation for all 2-wheels machines-not necessarily their riders. I have owned and ridden Honda/Suzuki/Kawi/Moto/BMW etc etc etc.
Each machine has a specific purpose and character and to deny one or a class is small minded and a display of youthful naivety.
My Harley is 17 years old and owns the road. No, I can't command it to ride as fast as some bikes or even turn as sharp but she is more than a utilitarian device, she is a work of art and mechanical history. I love her.
I have ridden in parts of this country and strangers will come up to me and invite me into their homes, tell me stories of their riding experiences from 1921 and take interest in my machine. Not many other bikes get that kind of treatment.

try ridin ducati, or a victory My old Ducati Monster HD guys would come up and ask about it and share just the same stories so would the metric cruisers and sportbikers.

1. If I paid veryon price id expect veryon performance, but I guess Harley guys already do that cause of the sheeplike customers their advertising produces.

Quit being an assclown. Comments like this just show how immature and narrow minded you are. Did you not READ above that every bike has a purpose and that all of them have their group of fans? Calling Harley riders "sheeplike" is just a display of you being ignorant. Are LS1 owners sheeplike because they like what they like? How about Ferrari owners?


2. a 1970 Chevelle is a "CLASSIC" not a 2009/2010 MSO having vehicle. Its rare. But last time I looked Chevrolet has advanced alot through the years or this site wouldnt have much revelance as the LS1 wouldnt exist.

There are more 1969 Camaros on the road than 4th gen LS1 f-bodies. Define rare? My point is that people will still pay a LOT of money today for classic technology. Just the same way that H-D enthusiasts still appreciate the simplicity and old school tech today. If they didn't, H-D wouldn't sell any bikes. The facts are against you, so quit being an assclown.


3. harley did make a sportbike, the VR1000 which was the test mule for the V-rod motor which HD raced on the american circuits (awesome classic looking sportbike that alot of people think would have sold great on the market). If Harley doesnt want to make a Sportbike fine, stay in their niche then, but at least support Buell and make it more of a company then it is today. Everybody seems to me missing the point, USA has really only one large motorcycle manfactuer, make an off brand like Star from Yamaha did.

I'd like to see more Buell bikes, but I'm not going to be an assclown like you and say that H-D sucks because they choose not to compete with the Jap sportbike industry. It is okay if you prefer sportbikes, but don't come here acting like an assclown and put down enthusiasts that like their American cruisers.

Reply assclown count: 4 :punch:

Quit being an assclown. Comments like this just show how immature and narrow minded you are. Did you not READ above that every bike has a purpose and that all of them have their group of fans? Calling Harley riders "sheeplike" is just a display of you being ignorant. Are LS1 owners sheeplike because they like what they like? How about Ferrari owners?



There are more 1969 Camaros on the road than 4th gen LS1 f-bodies. Define rare? My point is that people will still pay a LOT of money today for classic technology. Just the same way that H-D enthusiasts still appreciate the simplicity and old school tech today. If they didn't, H-D wouldn't sell any bikes. The facts are against you, so quit being an assclown.



I'd like to see more Buell bikes, but I'm not going to be an assclown like you and say that H-D sucks because they choose not to compete with the Jap sportbike industry. It is okay if you prefer sportbikes, but don't come here acting like an assclown and put down enthusiasts that like their American cruisers.

Reply assclown count: 4 :punch:

never did i say HD Sucks.......U put that there, You still dont get the point that your car is a C L A S S I C (20 yrs and older). Plus your showing your immaturity by calling me an "Assclown" for stateing my Opinion and keeping some weird "Count" of how many punches to me you have against my statement (which in my book you have none)

Today, you can build a brand new 1969 Camaro, with ZERO used parts (http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/gm_models.html). ZERO. It technically wouldn't be 20 years old then. The VIN# would be a 2008 model. It would cost you $40-50K minimum to do so. If that doesn't prove the point that people will pay big money for OLD technology, I don't know of a better example. How about those Shelby Cobra kit cars, some of those have 2008 VIN#'s and use ZERO old parts too. Those aren't cheap either.

I like this pic, and it isn't from 1969.

http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/factory/images/k.jpg
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/misc/images/a.jpg

So, you are flat out wrong that people do not buy old technology in newer cars. And you are definitely wrong about H-D, since we know people still buy 1000's of them every year. Why can't you just get over those facts? THEY HAVE THEIR PURPOSE, simple.

So a quick summary of what Ravenous has to say....

If it's not a sportbike it's not a real bike :eyes:

How cute....I bet you have one of those mohawks on your helmet and ride around in shorts and a wife beater with one hand on your hip. Am I being stereotypical? Well it seems like that's all you're doing so in this post, so why not??

I've owned sportbikes and enjoyed them....thought they were the greatest things on the planet for years too. Then I decided to try something different. I picked up a cruiser and a Buell. Had the most fun I've ever had on a bike on that Buell....and my cruiser is the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. The next bike I want in the garage is a DRZ400SM. I won't be breaking any land speed records with that, but I've come to appreciate diffferent aspects of different bikes.

You're comparing apples to oranges. I agree that I think it's funny to see 300lb bankers squeeze into their leathers on the weekends, and every article of clothing they wear has "Harley" pasted on it. But to each their own. They are using the bikes for what they're designed to do....unplug for an afternoon. They accomplish this by cruising around....you accomplish this by breaking speed limits and endangering other people on the road.

I don't care much for Harleys either, but I appreciate them and how they market them. And, they're American made and that should draw everyone's respect.

Today, you can build a brand new 1969 Camaro, with ZERO used parts (http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/gm_models.html). ZERO. It technically wouldn't be 20 years old then. The VIN# would be a 2008 model. It would cost you $40-50K minimum to do so. If that doesn't prove the point that people will pay big money for OLD technology, I don't know of a better example. How about those Shelby Cobra kit cars, some of those have 2008 VIN#'s and use ZERO old parts too. Those aren't cheap either.

I like this pic, and it isn't from 1969.

http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/factory/images/k.jpg
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/misc/images/a.jpg

So, you are flat out wrong that people do not buy old technology in newer cars. And you are definitely wrong about H-D, since we know people still buy 1000's of them every year. Why can't you just get over those facts? THEY HAVE THEIR PURPOSE, simple.

And why do u not have no reading comprehension on what I am trying to state???? Instead you bash and call me names instead of trying to rationally argue your POV. Nice kit cars, you would not be able to get the same amount of money for one of those as you would a actual 1969 Camaro, wonder if you could even get one of those onto concours auto show or sell it for over 100k on Barrett Jackson? Read over everyone of my statements several times, cause you seem to be missing the point i am trying to make.....America has no modern performance bike, the largest motorcycle manfucater in America and the Last Large one has now the money, resources, and capabilties to build one or help build one to compete in more then one market on the motorcycle market. Harley's use to race more then dirtracks, they use to compete all over the world on all kinds of circuits. I'd like to see an American brand atop the podiums at MotoGp, I'd like to see a HD/Buell going in a head to head battle against some of the top performers of inline 4's and italian V-twins.....But it seems from even this thread that HD is only a brand that now caters to Lawerys, Doctors, Sunday riders, Internet site owning aristocrites who can't see the potential of an one of America's last great institutions.

So a quick summary of what Ravenous has to say....

If it's not a sportbike it's not a real bike :eyes:

How cute....I bet you have one of those mohawks on your helmet and ride around in shorts and a wife beater with one hand on your hip. Am I being stereotypical? Well it seems like that's all you're doing so in this post, so why not??

I've owned sportbikes and enjoyed them....thought they were the greatest things on the planet for years too. Then I decided to try something different. I picked up a cruiser and a Buell. Had the most fun I've ever had on a bike on that Buell....and my cruiser is the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. The next bike I want in the garage is a DRZ400SM. I won't be breaking any land speed records with that, but I've come to appreciate diffferent aspects of different bikes.

You're comparing apples to oranges. I agree that I think it's funny to see 300lb bankers squeeze into their leathers on the weekends, and every article of clothing they wear has "Harley" pasted on it. But to each their own. They are using the bikes for what they're designed to do....unplug for an afternoon. They accomplish this by cruising around....you accomplish this by breaking speed limits and endangering other people on the road.

I don't care much for Harleys either, but I appreciate them and how they market them. And, they're American made and that should draw everyone's respect.

I ride with AGATT, seems people who ride Harley's in this thread cant see the forest from Trees. Looks like people are just skimming my posts and just picking and choosing. Never did i saw "Harley should quit making them dang cruiser" I just stated I wanna see that company do more, thats it. They did it in the past but seems people cant remember that they really use to race.

Could Harley do some things more "outside the box"? Sure, but why should they, as stated in posts above, plenty of people like it just the way it is, so why mess with it. And I wouldn't say that they haven't tried it, the V-Rod for example. As with the Deuce, it had to grow on me (yeah there are HD riders tried and true on the V-Twin, no sweat), and the NightRod looks awesome. Performance, it lacks. I rode one on the Harley Test Tour, and like the other V-Rods, almost no torque down low until you get midrange RPM and it starts to kick in. My NightTrain pulls all the way up. Now figuring Porsche (who helped design the V-Rod engine by the way) would have been better at it, but I was disappointed in it.
The Victory bikes look ok, have never ridden one, just never have wanted to. If I was going to get a crotch rocket again, Kawasaki ZX-14...and NOT to go weaving in and out of traffic. (Ravenous, you are correct stating that not all sport bikers do that, and yes some HD riders do that as well. Pisses me off!)
Sum it up though, these are all opinions, I don;t take Ravenous as being shove it down your throat, he just stated an opinion, but so did others that are viable.
But if you are looking for HD to do more, they do in different ways and in small ways to get reaction. To change radically would kill them in my opinion. They do small things every year, new bikes, upgraded engines, etc. Yeah, thier merchandise does count a LOT to thier revenue, but a lot of other companies rely on that stuff too, can't fault for great logo merchandising!
How about we start bashing ricer cars now, I like that much better. I have to admit, I have yet to see a crotch rocket with add on guages, 4 Nitrous bottles (not functional), neons, an exhaust the size of a Folgers can, a stereo that costs 3 times the amount of the car and still sounds like S!@#, and to top it all of, a huge V-TEC sticker!

Disclaimer - yeah I know crotch rockets do have som eof that stuff, but it is at least functional unlike some of these Hondas Civics and the like out there.

Could Harley do some things more "outside the box"? Sure, but why should they, as stated in posts above, plenty of people like it just the way it is, so why mess with it. And I wouldn't say that they haven't tried it, the V-Rod for example. As with the Deuce, it had to grow on me (yeah there are HD riders tried and true on the V-Twin, no sweat), and the NightRod looks awesome. Performance, it lacks. I rode one on the Harley Test Tour, and like the other V-Rods, almost no torque down low until you get midrange RPM and it starts to kick in. My NightTrain pulls all the way up. Now figuring Porsche (who helped design the V-Rod engine by the way) would have been better at it, but I was disappointed in it.
The Victory bikes look ok, have never ridden one, just never have wanted to. If I was going to get a crotch rocket again, Kawasaki ZX-14...and NOT to go weaving in and out of traffic. (Ravenous, you are correct stating that not all sport bikers do that, and yes some HD riders do that as well. Pisses me off!)
Sum it up though, these are all opinions, I don;t take Ravenous as being shove it down your throat, he just stated an opinion, but so did others that are viable.
But if you are looking for HD to do more, they do in different ways and in small ways to get reaction. To change radically would kill them in my opinion. They do small things every year, new bikes, upgraded engines, etc. Yeah, thier merchandise does count a LOT to thier revenue, but a lot of other companies rely on that stuff too, can't fault for great logo merchandising!
How about we start bashing ricer cars now, I like that much better. I have to admit, I have yet to see a crotch rocket with add on guages, 4 Nitrous bottles (not functional), neons, an exhaust the size of a Folgers can, a stereo that costs 3 times the amount of the car and still sounds like S!@#, and to top it all of, a huge V-TEC sticker!

Disclaimer - yeah I know crotch rockets do have som eof that stuff, but it is at least functional unlike some of these Hondas Civics and the like out there.

Thank-you for a Smart well thought out post. Good points you've made, and its true they just couldnt Pop onto the Sportbike scene, but doing what they did in the 90's with the VR1000 and giving a little bit more corporate support could help in the right direction.

fat, old overweight men who fear corners and speed need something to ride too.....Thanx Hardley....I mean Harley

until they make the VR1000 or some sort of bike that pushes the performance limit I will not be impressed with Harley D's

if its loud and rumbles....it better shit and get....I Hate a Dog thats all bark and no bite.

And your pitbull analogy is more like a Pitbull that acts like a poodle

I feel HD has let America down

alot of the HD hard core nut huggers are so stuck back in the 1960's

Harley could provide but narrow minded individuals keep holding it back.

HD is only a brand that now caters to Lawerys, Doctors, Sunday riders, Internet site owning aristocrites who can't see the potential of an one of America's last great institutions.

Answer this for me. If you just read those comments that you posted above, do you think they were not narrow-minded, heavily biased, and prove you are an assclown? I think most would feel otherwise. Maybe you just do not see your intense level of assclownery here? It is very obvious you dislike H-D and the fans who support them. Point taken. But, your comments above simply make you an assclown.

I like the word assclown, it fits you well. Immature of me to use it? Sure, but I'm not the assclown. How many more times can I type assclown in this thread, assclown?

Now, go work on your Camaro that Daddy bought you. Someday you might grow up and actually respect other types of bikes, and actually be able to afford a nice H-D to cruise on. Nobody says you have to pick sides, plenty of riders I know own both styles of bike. I still dig sportbikes, just not assclowns.

I ride with AGATT, seems people who ride Harley's in this thread cant see the forest from Trees. Looks like people are just skimming my posts and just picking and choosing. Never did i saw "Harley should quit making them dang cruiser" I just stated I wanna see that company do more, thats it. They did it in the past but seems people cant remember that they really use to race.


You entered this post with some harsh words....then you demand respect at the end? If you actually read MY post I said I wasn't a fan of Harleys either, but I respect the MARKETING of their bikes. And let's not forget the huge mark-up of everything that has the words "Harley Davidson" on it.

Sure they could do more....but they're getting nearly twice as much as their foreign competetion for their bikes. Now do you really think they're doing something wrong?

I admire the fact that you appreciate performance....but Harley has affectively continued to put huge price tags on their bikes and sell them. To top it off, go ask any Harley rider on the road if they grumbled about the money they paid for their bike. When you grow up you'll realize that profit and customer satisfaction are more important to a company than winning a race or two.

Answer this for me. If you just read those comments that you posted above, do you think they were not narrow-minded, heavily biased, and prove you are an assclown? I think most would feel otherwise. Maybe you just do not see your intense level of assclownery here? It is very obvious you dislike H-D and the fans who support them. Point taken. But, your comments above simply make you an assclown.

I like the word assclown, it fits you well. Immature of me to use it? Sure, but I'm not the assclown. How many more times can I type assclown in this thread, assclown?

Now, go work on your Camaro that Daddy bought you. Someday you might grow up and actually respect other types of bikes, and actually be able to afford a nice H-D to cruise on. Nobody says you have to pick sides, plenty of riders I know own both styles of bike. I still dig sportbikes, just not assclowns.

Im just saying what most people think, you take offense..maybe there is some truth in my statement then cause the truth hurts sometimes:D Plus this Camaro my Daddy bought me he didnt buy it for me, he bought it for himself and is giving it to me cause this is the last project my father and I may ever get to work on since he is near to 70 yrs old now. An I find it low that you would even go there, I expected more out of you Nine Ball....Nice going

If the consumer had the same demands as an Assclown, H-D would be out of business. But since they've grown year after year and their product demands a premium (especially in foreign markets), I'd have to say that consumer tastes and spending don't always reflect the performance or technology of the product. Image is worth a bunch and H-D has it in spades.

Im just saying what most people think, you take offense..maybe there is some truth in my statement then cause the truth hurts sometimes:D Plus this Camaro my Daddy bought me he didnt buy it for me, he bought it for himself and is giving it to me cause this is the last project my father and I may ever get to work on since he is near to 70 yrs old now. An I find it low that you would even go there, I expected more out of you Nine Ball....Nice going

Need a tissue? :cry:

I've never had anyone in my family die, ever. We are invincible. :eyes:

The TRUTH is, you are an assclown. Thought I'd sneak that one in. But hey, you aren't an assclown because I said so, you typed up the proof above!

Ravenous, you are missing the point. Not everyone rides a motorcycle because they want to haul ass and drag knees in the corner. Its about being on the open road, cruising with more freedom than you can feel within a car.

If you can't appreciate just cruising on a rowdy HOTROD sounding Harley, for the pure and simple pleasure of riding, then that is a shame. I can appreciate sportbikes for their purpose, and V-twins for theirs. I don't make negative comments and come off like an assclown about the other type, like you are doing.


^^Completely agree. Not everyone is out to race everything equiped with wheels. Some people actually like to just enjoy life instead of always being in the fast lane.

Damn I bought my wife a HD so I guess her and me are idiots. I couldnt see her cruising around all hunched over riding to work in traffic.

Each to there own ASSCLOWN. Just like I dont like foreign junk but I will work on it. I damn sure dont knock them.

Today, you can build a brand new 1969 Camaro, with ZERO used parts (http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/gm_models.html). ZERO. It technically wouldn't be 20 years old then. The VIN# would be a 2008 model. It would cost you $40-50K minimum to do so. If that doesn't prove the point that people will pay big money for OLD technology, I don't know of a better example. How about those Shelby Cobra kit cars, some of those have 2008 VIN#'s and use ZERO old parts too. Those aren't cheap either.

I like this pic, and it isn't from 1969.

http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/factory/images/k.jpg
http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/misc/images/a.jpg

So, you are flat out wrong that people do not buy old technology in newer cars. And you are definitely wrong about H-D, since we know people still buy 1000's of them every year. Why can't you just get over those facts? THEY HAVE THEIR PURPOSE, simple.


Worst argument ever. How many people are going out there and buying these things? Not many. The market for those cars is small. Yes, there are a small number of people that will buy old technology but you can't tell me that if that were not a CLONE of a 69 Camaro that people would be rushing out to buy it. It just wouldn't happen. It probably get's shitty fuel mileage and is probably one of the most unsafe cars out there by todays standards.

Does GM, Honda, Toyota or Chrysler make a car today with all 60's technology? Hell no they don't and there's a reason. That reason is that they wouldn't sell for shit.

The only reason that car is selling at all is because someone can buy what looks like a 69 Camaro at a somewhat cheaper price than the real thing that has been restored correctly.

Does GM, Honda, Toyota or Chrysler make a car today with all 60's technology? Hell no they don't and there's a reason. That reason is that they wouldn't sell for shit.


Harley does. Except they use EFI too now.


The only reason that car is selling at all is because someone can buy what looks like a 69 Camaro at a somewhat cheaper price than the real thing that has been restored correctly.

...and for the same reasons, people BUY Harleys. Is that a good enough example for you?

Harley does. Except they use EFI too now.



...and for the same reasons, people BUY Harleys. Is that a good enough example for you?

I'm not disagreeing with your HD comments. I don't see or have a problem with what HD is selling these days. They are doing just what they should be, selling products that make them money.

I was pointing ou that the use of the Camaro clone in your argument was just rediculous because of the scope of the markets for each of them.

What I have noticed here lately is that a lot of grown ass men have stooped to name calling and childish insults to get their points across. That's an embarrassment to those that have done so and it's something I'd expect to see from some spoiled rotten teenage ricers and not grown fucking men.

BTW, those repro 69 bodies are licensed through GM, and can be called a "Camaro" not a Kamaro. They technically aren't clones, they are reproduced bodies. You can build them and acquire a kit car VIN# (2008) or you can 'repair' an actual '69 by swapping the body for your rust bucket or wrecked body. Either way is legal. These "clones" as you refer to them as, are NOT cheap. You can still build a true 69 Camaro for less. True, you couldn't ask the 1.2 million bucks for an authentic ZL-1 car, but you sure could ask the $40-50K it would cost to either buy a restored 350 V8 convertible or a 'clone' 350 V8 convertible. People DO buy them, quite a few of them.

I think we are getting into too many tangents here, should I re-simplify things?

1. Harley has a niche, and they are perceived to be the best at their niche.
2. Simple economics, supply and demand, drive the market. Not how fast something is.
3. It is okay to dislike a brand or niche, but don't be an ASSCLOWN about it.
4. An example was raised about how people wouldn't buy new products that had '60s technology. Examples to disprove this were shown. Hell, sales figures on H-D bikes also disprove this.

Ill take class over speed any day.

Harley has a specific niche, comparing to sportsbikes is pointless.

I'd probably buy a sportbike if I ever got another bike, it's been over 15 years for me), cuz I'm all about the speed for the buck.

There is nothing wrong about a H-D, just sometimes their riders suck. Just like in any car scene.

yep cause fat, old overweight men who fear corners and speed need something to ride too.....Thanx Hardley....I mean Harley:D



I hope Buells new sportbike will wake up America's soul for a performance motorcycle even tho it has an Austrian motor

I started off joking and sarcastic about how i felt HD left Buell to shop for overseas motor, people took offense, Said "How Juvenile !" so I retorted as to why I made the comment, I put a flattering remark about the NHRA Dragster HD but that seems to fall on deaf ears and was omitted with chopping and pasting. Trishield posted about "Badassness" So I stated How I felt HD fell short of such a statement, plus again how HD let Buell down.
Somehow my statement got twisted to some sort of HD sucks cause I'd like HD to start racing in circuit racing again???? Then "Iceman" tried to make me look like a squid in flip flops cause I somehow insulted his HD brand and suggesested I should walk up to a Hell's Angel and say HD Sucks...which I never did.
Then of course the never wrong NineBall brings the fact of his 70 Classic should be on the same lines as new HD???? Apples and Oranges if I ever saw one, HD todays are little bit (not alot) but a little more advanced then 70's Harley's. Then Nine has to state im an Assclown (which I maybe cause I love female ass and would clown all over it) cause somehow I insulted his ego of being a HD owner that everything should remain the same at HD even tho everything got revamped after the AMC era (quality issues) He wouldnt have the Harley he has today if they hadn't. Hell I even threw some smiley faces in there to show I was just joking and didnt take it so serious.
Plus if you check my stupid Cardomain page you'd see I have built a 1970 GTX, 1998 TA was bought and paid for by ME and all its Mods bought and PAID for BY ME, I have also bought and built a 1970 Dart 340 Swinger with my money and my hands. Tryin to say im some sort of spoiled little rich kid or young punk that gets what ever he wants by daddy is insulting and did nuthin to add to the discussion but show your immaturity. But hey, hate to make people think or wish for the glory days when Harley ran the courses and showed the world what an American V-twin could do besides stroll down the highway.



PS I have owned a Ducati 750 Monster, 2 750 GSXR, I like all bikes especially the itailian ones so saying im a sportbiker nut hugger you got me all wrong.....Plus I am not a Kid in almost 31yrs and proudly carry CM license and only take blast down back remote roads or empty highways.

I'm not offended at all. Hell, the word 'assclown' is just funny to use, and couldn't possibly be taken serious by you. I'm laughing at your ignorant replies, that is all.

BTW, please quit with the bleeding heart American pride stuff, you can't wave that flag so proudly and use it as a basis of your statements if you ride import bikes. I'm fairly certain you are USA proud, but your arguments about "H-D let America down" blah blah blah are all bullcrap coming from YOU. Guess what, YOU let America down by buying your import bikes. Irony at its best.

Not really, they let me down by not backing and helping Buell producing a V-Twin. Thats what I been tryin to say this entire time. I bought a Ducati cause it was a V-Twin and it looked tough, I bought the Japenese bike cause at the time maintence on a Ducati was hella expensive 00-01 on a 98 750 Monster. Wanted more performance and kept scrapping pegs also:D I was just let down when Buell who has been tryin for years to get up there along with italian Twins and Inline Japenese bikes but it seems HD holds them back and sees that company as some bastard step child. The New Buell 1125r will be a good bike, but it still falls short of being a True Bad ass american v-Twin compared to Ducati, Aprilla etc... Plus GM Owns a good portion of Suzuki;)

I respect performance, My motto is speak softley but carry a big F'n stick. Plus mouthing off to the hell's angel I wouldnt even try and not cause they ride Harleys but becuase them dudes will kill you, same as the Bloods, Thirteens, etc.....there gangs not a brand. And not all of us sportbikers, crotchrockerters wheelie, or stunt, I stunted when I was 10yrs old on a BMX bike, I ride a Sport Bike cause I like taking corners, you should see my sidewalls:D A Harley rider would shit a brick if the came up on a 30mph corner at 80mph:jest:...me I twist the throttle more and lean that bitch:devil: And your pitbull analogy is more like a Pitbull that acts like a poodle, stomped your foot and it runs for a corner. :D



It's just 2 different styles of riding man. Lol! Let it go. This is a chevy site. How much more american does that get anyway?

"Not really, they let me down by not backing and helping Buell producing a V-Twin. Thats what I been tryin to say this entire time. = Harley on builds bikes for fat old men?"

I'm not a fat old man and most of the guys I ride with are not fat old men... I have seen several guys who never liked Harley's until they had riden one. You know what you and your arguments sound like?... the British guys on Top gear when they drive a rear drive American car (they don't get it) and yet you seem to have an appreciation for them? Can't believe you would want to drive that old antiquated push-rod dinosaur you call a trans am.:eyes:

There no problem with wishing Harley had backed Buel more but you came in crapping something many of us on here enjoy. No different than a ricer making comments about your Trans Am or your mullet....

As for saying all Harley Davidsons are all bark no bite. I know plenty that run hard from a stop light. They can make gobs of torque and obviously do very well in NHRA (they actually make them add weight so the other brands can compete)



http://www.prostockcycles.com/race/?page_id=556

It's just 2 different styles of riding man. Lol! Let it go. This is a chevy site. How much more american does that get anyway?

Exactly. This discussion is like comparing Cadillacs to Caterhams...