Automotive News, Media & Press - LSA CTS-V Sets Fastest Sedan Laptime at the 'Ring

Breaks 8-minute barrier - potentially the fastest documented lap time for a production sedan

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/05/ctsv_greenhell.jpg

In testing today at Germany's Nurburgring, Cadillac's upcoming new 2009 CTS-V completed a lap of the legendary Nordschleife in 7:59.32. This blistering time appears to be the fastest ever publicly documented for a production sedan.

Cadillac is nearing the completion of testing for the highly anticipated CTS-V, the limited-edition high-performance model based on the award-winning CTS sport sedan. John Heinricy, GM Performance Division executive and an acclaimed racing driver, piloted the CTS-V through its sub-8 minute lap. The car itself had no performance modifications outside of those planned for consumer production, which is scheduled to begin this fall.

Estimated at 550-hp, the CTS-V is at the moment going through the final stages of intensive testing and development. One of the realistic objectives of the Cadillac team is to make the CTS-V the world's fastest production sedan, as a part of the overall goal to make the V-Series Cadillac's ultimate expression of performance and technology. More updates will be released in the coming weeks as testing is finalized, including the car's certified SAE power ratings, acceleration specifications and U.S.-market pricing.

Video documentation of the car's breakthrough Nordschleife performance will be posted online in the coming days at http://cadillac.gmblogs.com

The eight-minute mark has long been recognized as a major Nurburgring milestone, reserved for race cars and the fastest exotic sports cars. While there's no single official repository for Nurburgring data from private test sessions, numerous reputable websites and publications report lap times from race teams, automakers and independent sources.

The new 2009 CTS-V includes a suite of advanced performance technologies, including a new version of Cadillac's acclaimed Magnetic Ride Control suspension and the LSA 6.2-liter Supercharged V8 engine. For the first time, CTS-V will include the choice of 6-speed manual or automatic transmissions, with the new automatic sporting steering wheel-mounted shift buttons.

http://www.cadillac.com/_res/i/footer/tmb/cadillac.jpg (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=9&docid=45590)

Congrats to GM

Niiiiiiice :drool: I'd take this over Lexus IS F or M3

Doesn't surprise me one bit for this car is an AMAZING vehicle!

Congrats to GM/Cadillac on a job well done. :usa: :cheers:

sweet!!!

:cool: :thumb:

Way to go Caddy, kick TOY's(Lexus') azz!! :usa:

[QUOTE=TriShield;9330711]Breaks 8-minute barrier - potentially the fastest documented lap time for a production sedan QUOTE]

TriShield, are you feeling ok? Not one negative blurb about GM?

Pretty damn awesome, an American sedan that can rip you a new one in a straight line and through the turns.
-Joel

Awesome numbers!

Waiting for that import nut swinging tool COD02SS to say something..

Can you imagine what a ZR1 will do then?

That ain't your daddy's Cadillac!:devil:

Niiiiiiice :drool: I'd take this over Lexus IS F or M3

+1!! I'll take two of them, one to stare at and wash every damn day and one to drive! :drool:

Doesn't surprise me one bit for this car is an AMAZING vehicle!

Congrats to GM/Cadillac on a job well done. :usa: :cheers:

Absolutely, this car is top notch top to bottom, the interrior is absolutely stunning too!

[quote=TriShield;9330711]Breaks 8-minute barrier - potentially the fastest documented lap time for a production sedan QUOTE]

TriShield, are you feeling ok? Not one negative blurb about GM?

:eyes: Grow up man!

To be the ultimate expression of "performance and technology", they need to incorporate something along the lines of the ATESSA system, or whatever Mitsu uses in the Evo. I know the CTS is available in AWD, but I'm not sure about the -V, nor how well the system works in a pure performance direction.

I wonder what a V coupe will do having 2 less doors to drag around.:D

:eyes: Grow up man!

Why? He's got a point. I think TriShield is just trying to balance things out and take some of the spotlight off of himself.

But regardless, thanks for the news.

]To be the ultimate expression of "performance and technology", they need to incorporate something along the lines of the ATESSA system, or whatever Mitsu uses in the Evo. I know the CTS is available in AWD, but I'm not sure about the -V, nor how well the system works in a pure performance direction.

Obviously it has no need. The definition of "technology" in terms of automobiles does not specify AWD. Perhaps by "technology" they mean the ability to outrun and outhandle AWD sedans without the extra weight and gas suckage of AWD.

The definition of "technology" in terms of automobiles does not specify AWD. Perhaps by "technology" they mean the ability to outrun and outhandle AWD sedans without the extra weight and gas suckage of AWD.

Good point, Blackbird24. AWD is awesome, and a cool idea. But that doesn't necessarily make it the best choice for all applications. AWD is a good means to an end, but that doesn't make it the end-all-be-all of drive train solutions. in the CTS's case, it might take too much $$$ to convert the LSA to an AWD application. And with the high HP of the LSA, the fuel economy with an AWD setup might be in the range of the C63 AMG. (12/16 city/hwy)

Why? He's got a point. I think TriShield is just trying to balance things out and take some of the spotlight off of himself.

But regardless, thanks for the news.


I don't like that it's festooned with tacky chrome everywhere (ditto for the G8 GXP) but other than that it's a knockout.

Hopefully it doesn't have a suspension that wheel-hops all to Hell, a weak rear diff and I hope for GM's sake they sell more this time around than last time.

I cant wait to see what the CTS coupe does on the ring

I hope the only add on they make to the coupe -V is just a V badge because it looks great as is

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u28/warlock147/Ls1%20Tech%20stuff/cadillac_cts_coupe_2_430.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u28/warlock147/Ls1%20Tech%20stuff/14cts-600.jpg

They need to fix the rear on the coupe, and then i will love every inch of it. But yeah would be awesome to see the LSA in the coupe, will be one badass car.
-Joel

Sweet!

congrats to a job well done!

amazing times!

I wonder what she'll do with bolt-ons, pulley swap, and a tune?
-Joel

Nice job GM! :nod:

I wonder what she'll do with bolt-ons, pulley swap, and a tune?
-Joel

I don't remember if it was the ZR1 or the CTS-V but isn't the compression ratio on one of the two like 10.5:1 and they are running 10lbs through the TVS? If that's the case I think a pulley swap without running some kinda of octane booster might be hazardous to the motor.
Maybe someone could correct me, I don't recall where I had read the spec sheet.

Ah, I didn't know that information. Well autoblog states the LSA uses a smaller blower which displaces 1.9L to the 2.3L fof the LS9. Which it also says lowers the boost from 10.5 to 9.0.
-Joel

Ok so here's the compression Ratio's
LS9 = 9.9:1
LSA = 9.0:1

So I think to pulley down on the LSA would be fine and I would assume with a safe tune you could get to 16-18lbs without tearing into the engine too much.
With the LS9 I think 12lbs might be the most you'd want to push it without tearing into it for stronger parts...
Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I think the LS8 might be piston limited, as it uses cast units. Conceivably, a pullied/bolt on LS8 should make 600ish whp, which might be a little high on the pistons, but I guess only time will tell.
You will still be able to pulley a ZR1 agressively, but might need to be a little more conservative with timing. Worse case scenario a meth kit would work wonder.

Heres a link to autoblog, and a vid of the CTS-V running the 'Ring
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/14/video-cadillac-cts-v-takes-to-the-ring-pummels-into-submissio/
-Joel

LOL...did they do a standing start? j/k :jest:
Sounds like they really muted the exhaust from the previous models which had a rather nice loud sound. With it this quiet it might be better for DD duties! I wish I had 60K laying around that's for sure!! :drool:

LOL...did they do a standing start? j/k :jest:
Sounds like they really muted the exhaust from the previous models which had a rather nice loud sound. With it this quiet it might be better for DD duties! I wish I had 60K laying around that's for sure!! :drool:

I think they just realized that being a Cadillac meant getting the whole package, and a loud exhaust isn't really an "Executive" quality in luxo cars.

Of course, AMG's are pretty mean sounding...

Yeah i noticed the car didn't seem like it was really hauling ass, but i guess that most of the people that can afford it don't want something to loud.
-Joel

Yeah i noticed the car didn't seem like it was really hauling ass, but i guess that most of the people that can afford it don't want something to loud.
-Joel

I read a qoute from the supraforums, that stated the CTS-V used a roll bar or cage to complete its run. I dont know if its true or not, but is that defined as stock? Since tying different points of the chassis together, stiffens the frame and aids in handling. Ill see if I can find the qoute.

I read a qoute from the supraforums, that stated the CTS-V used a roll bar or cage to complete its run. I dont know if its true or not, but is that defined as stock? Since tying different points of the chassis together, stiffens the frame and aids in handling. Ill see if I can find the qoute.

I find it hard to believe that even YOU would consider this even a remote possibility. Why would they do this in a Cadillac? Any gains made through stiffness would be offset by weight.

Seriously man.

I read a qoute from the supraforums, that stated the CTS-V used a roll bar or cage to complete its run. I dont know if its true or not, but is that defined as stock? Since tying different points of the chassis together, stiffens the frame and aids in handling. Ill see if I can find the qoute.

Kind of like how this sedan uses a roll bar for its runs around the ring?

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/future/09.nissan.skyline.gtr/skylin.track.back.500.jpg

I find it hard to believe that even YOU would consider this even a remote possibility. Why would they do this in a Cadillac? Any gains made through stiffness would be offset by weight.

Seriously man.

No, the article was actually qouted. Im just presenting what I read. Here is a pic of the car in question:

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/news/2008/0509/dsc.6613.500.jpg

If you look closely, that is a roll bar. What kind, points or material used is up for debate. But if a chassis modification was made to a stock vehicle, then this imo voids any times presented to me.

Yes a roll bar/cage adds weight, but it could be minimal depending on the material used. And the benefits of a rollcage/rollbar exceeds the minimal weight gains. We can also assume that suspension modification are altered in conjunction with the rollcage

Kind of like how this sedan uses a roll bar for its runs around the ring?

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/il/features/future/09.nissan.skyline.gtr/skylin.track.back.500.jpg

Ive mentioned this in the past. If the GTR used a rollcage, then its times doesnt represent what the average consumer could portray

I read a qoute from the supraforums, that stated the CTS-V used a roll bar or cage to complete its run. I dont know if its true or not, but is that defined as stock? Since tying different points of the chassis together, stiffens the frame and aids in handling. Ill see if I can find the qoute.

“To clarify, the car had no performance or operational modifications outside of what we intend to offer in production. We did have a couple of customary safety precautions, as the first goal of our testing is always to keep drivers like John safe. The car had a harness bar upon which a 6-way racing safety belt system was mounted. We also had a fire supression unit on board. These things add a little bit of weight to the car, certainly not helping performance any. Stock tires, too.” This is according to gmblogs.com

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/

“To clarify, the car had no performance or operational modifications outside of what we intend to offer in production. We did have a couple of customary safety precautions, as the first goal of our testing is always to keep drivers like John safe. The car had a harness bar upon which a 6-way racing safety belt system was mounted. We also had a fire supression unit on board. These things add a little bit of weight to the car, certainly not helping performance any. Stock tires, too.” This is according to gmblogs.com

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/

Nice find. I stand corrected

“To clarify, the car had no performance or operational modifications outside of what we intend to offer in production. We did have a couple of customary safety precautions, as the first goal of our testing is always to keep drivers like John safe. The car had a harness bar upon which a 6-way racing safety belt system was mounted. We also had a fire supression unit on board. These things add a little bit of weight to the car, certainly not helping performance any. Stock tires, too.” This is according to gmblogs.com

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/

This is what I was thinking.

I am left wondering, however, what the deal is with the GT-R pic. There is obviously a cage of some sort in that car...and the part we can see definitely has nothing to do with seat belts. Did the GT-R that ran the ring have a full cage?

Honestly i could careless if the cars have a cage or not, they aren't thinking of anything but driver safety. They said it themselves just by putting that they are adding weight to the car. These two companies are doing a shitload of work to take the weight off the cars, so i doubt they are going to add the weight of the roll bar unless its for a important reason.
-Joel

Did the supposed v-spec have a roll cage/roll bar when it ran the 'ring? Maybe the v-spec will be ditching the rear seats, and with the loss of weight maybe nissan is adding a cage like in the 997 GT3RS. That i honestly think would be pretty fucking impressive.
GT3RS:
http://www.diseno-art.com/images/porsche-911-997-gt3-rs-rear.jpg
-Joel

Did the supposed v-spec have a roll cage/roll bar when it ran the 'ring? Maybe the v-spec will be ditching the rear seats, and with the loss of weight maybe nissan is adding a cage like in the 997 GT3RS. That i honestly think would be pretty fucking impressive.
GT3RS:
http://www.diseno-art.com/images/porsche-911-997-gt3-rs-rear.jpg
-Joel

Yes that would be impressive!

I love that Porsche and all of it's neon glory! :D

As much as i like that orange, i prefer:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9969/fpvu5.jpg

But yeah that would be pretty crazy if the VSpec came with a set-up like that. I think its worth the added weight, because it would look cool as hell.
-Joel

This is what I was thinking.

I am left wondering, however, what the deal is with the GT-R pic. There is obviously a cage of some sort in that car...and the part we can see definitely has nothing to do with seat belts. Did the GT-R that ran the ring have a full cage?

Not sure, but that would help the chassis though.

Well thats the thing its going to help the chassis, but at what cost to the added weight. I see it being more for driver safety, than actually as a chassis assist. Now as i said if they are testing it with the cage, because they are considering on adding it as part of the factory, that will be fucking cool.
-Joel

Well thats the thing its going to help the chassis, but at what cost to the added weight. I see it being more for driver safety, than actually as a chassis assist. Now as i said if they are testing it with the cage, because they are considering on adding it as part of the factory, that will be fucking cool.
-Joel

I dont think it would be cool with a car with a back seat. The new Vspec is suppose to be 350lbs and 75-100hp more without deleting its comforts. This is a GT(R) car and not a sports car.

Yeah theres no way either GT-R is coming with a cage.

That being said...now that the ZR1 will be out...producing the Z06 with a cage would be kickass...since it's supposed to be the "track vette"...why not?

I dont think it would be cool with a car with a back seat. The new Vspec is suppose to be 350lbs and 75-100hp more without deleting its comforts. This is a GT(R) car and not a sports car.

No but im talking about deleting the the rear seats and adding the cage. I dont see the reason in the Vpsec unless its going to be largely different than the regular model. Vpec should be the weekend racer, something that you can just hit up the track with.

I would actually prefer the cage in the ZR1, that car is at the limit of being a race car. Putting out 638hp, carbon-ceramic brakes, carbon fiber all over the place. I think it would benefit greatly from a cage, and be one bad ass motherfucker. :D
-Joel

No but im talking about deleting the the rear seats and adding the cage. I dont see the reason in the Vpsec unless its going to be largely different than the regular model. Vpec should be the weekend racer, something that you can just hit up the track with.

I would actually prefer the cage in the ZR1, that car is at the limit of being a race car. Putting out 638hp, carbon-ceramic brakes, carbon fiber all over the place. I think it would benefit greatly from a cage, and be one bad ass motherfucker. :D
-Joel

350lbs and 75-100hp more is significantly different imo. But I do see your point though. It would be nice to see a stripped out version. Damn I love these wars.

No but im talking about deleting the the rear seats and adding the cage. I dont see the reason in the Vpsec unless its going to be largely different than the regular model. Vpec should be the weekend racer, something that you can just hit up the track with.

I would actually prefer the cage in the ZR1, that car is at the limit of being a race car. Putting out 638hp, carbon-ceramic brakes, carbon fiber all over the place. I think it would benefit greatly from a cage, and be one bad ass motherfucker. :D
-Joel

The ZR1 is not intended as an extension of the Z06. It is the King Vette...tops in not only speed and handling, but comfort also. It has more sound deadening than the Z06, a more plush interior, and a more compliant ride. It is heavier than the Z06. It will also rape the Z06, which creates a bit of an identity crisis for the Z06...because the track vette should be the fastest.

If, however, they turn the Z06 into the stripped down, lightweight, track-ready vette...this could create a great position for the car. They could go with an overbuilt drivetrain that would otherwise be considered "harsh" in a production street vehicle, and the LS7 certainly offers an excellent starting point for engine mods. That's why I say that offering a cage in the Z06 would be really frikin cool.

Rather than having three cars vying in the same domain - fast, really fast, and fucking insane...they could have the entry-level C6, the track-ready Z06, and the ZR1 as King of all things Vette.

The ZR1 is not intended as an extension of the Z06. It is the King Vette...tops in not only speed and handling, but comfort also. It has more sound deadening than the Z06, a more plush interior, and a more compliant ride. It is heavier than the Z06. It will also rape the Z06, which creates a bit of an identity crisis for the Z06...because the track vette should be the fastest.

If, however, they turn the Z06 into the stripped down, lightweight, track-ready vette...this could create a great position for the car. They could go with an overbuilt drivetrain that would otherwise be considered "harsh" in a production street vehicle, and the LS7 certainly offers an excellent starting point for engine mods. That's why I say that offering a cage in the Z06 would be really frikin cool.

Rather than having three cars vying in the same domain - fast, really fast, and fucking insane...they could have the entry-level C6, the track-ready Z06, and the ZR1 as King of all things Vette.


Isn't the LS7 being phased-out, though? If the Z06 was given a new engine...

That's why I say that offering a cage in the Z06 would be really frikin cool.

AGREED!

But who's 'spec'/rules do they build it to??

SCCA T1, FIA, etc. :confused:

The new Vspec is suppose to be 350lbs and 75-100hp more without deleting its comforts. This is a GT(R) car and not a sports car.Really? How are they going to pull that kind of weight out while still retaining ALL of the current car's heavy luxury accoutrements and seats?:huh:
Carbon fiber and magnesium replacement parts can only overcome so much.

Really? How are they going to pull that kind of weight out while still retaining ALL of the current car's heavy luxury accoutrements and seats?:huh:
Carbon fiber and magnesium replacement parts can only overcome so much.


They can't. To really take that much weight off that car, the nice seats will have to come out, some electronics will have to come out, all of the sound deadening and insulation will have to come out...etc. Basically it will feel like an f-body inside. :D

I remember an article talking about "extensive use of carbon fiber"...now I know they are not changing the platform at all...so knowing that, even if they replaced all the sheetmetal/composite with carbon fiber, they'd lose maybe 100lbs max. The rest has to come from somewhere else, and it can't be the drivetrain.

They can't. To really take that much weight off that car, the nice seats will have to come out, some electronics will have to come out, all of the sound deadening and insulation will have to come out...etc. Basically it will feel like an f-body inside. :D
I remember an article talking about "extensive use of carbon fiber"...now I know they are not changing the platform at all...so knowing that, even if they replaced all the sheetmetal/composite with carbon fiber, they'd lose maybe 100lbs max. The rest has to come from somewhere else, and it can't be the drivetrain.That's what I was thinkin' as well.
So if that's the case then it's highly unlikely that they will still be able to reduce the weight "without deleting it's comforts" or they won't be reducing it's weight by quite that entire 350 pound target amount at all.

Really? How are they going to pull that kind of weight out while still retaining ALL of the current car's heavy luxury accoutrements and seats?:huh:
Carbon fiber and magnesium replacement parts can only overcome so much.

I guess this is a reverse of the ZR1 400 lbs thread lol. Not sure what they've done, but from what the articles have stated, its down to 3500lbs. I guess the use of carbon fiber, lighter wheels, seats, exhaust, etc.... This might be a 10sec car in that configuration. 75-100hp and 350lbs weight should equate to nearly a full second correct?

This might be a 10sec car in that configuration. 75-100hp and 350lbs weight should equate to nearly a full second correct?Absolutely.

But let's maybe wait until the car actually comes out with a true 75-100hp more AND at an actual 350 pounds less before we start handing out time slips and trophies, ok? ;)

Absolutely.

But let's maybe wait until the car actually comes out with a true 75-100hp more AND at an actual 350 pounds less before we start handing out time slips and trophies, ok? ;)

Hey, thats what trolls do :chug:

^ LMAO
-Joel

I guess this is a reverse of the ZR1 400 lbs thread lol. Not sure what they've done, but from what the articles have stated, its down to 3500lbs. I guess the use of carbon fiber, lighter wheels, seats, exhaust, etc.... This might be a 10sec car in that configuration. 75-100hp and 350lbs weight should equate to nearly a full second correct?

no back seats, no adjustable suspension(not very street friendly dampers either), carbon ceramic brakes. lighter seats. For that much weight I am guessing a/c and such will be options.

no back seats, no adjustable suspension(not very street friendly dampers either), carbon ceramic brakes. lighter seats. For that much weight I am guessing a/c and such will be options.

Basically a GTR Z06.

I hope thats not blasphemy. :emb:

no adjustable suspension(not very street friendly dampers either), .

according to road and track A/C will be standard.......and why take away adjustable suspension from a performance car?

.......and why take away adjustable suspension from a performance car?Well, to save some weight I'd assume.

Well, to save some weight I'd assume.

The advantage to an adjustable suspension is versatility. The V-spec is supposed to be the track-ready GTR. It doesn't need versatility.