Max power 383 which head AFR 210 eliminator or AI TFS 215?
For a max effort n/a street strip 383 which heads the Competition AFR 210 eliminators or the AI 215 TFS heads and also what cam? I have a GM 847 cam already but I'm not married to it, I'm just wondering for down the road.
Just something i found from google, no idea if dude knows what he is talking about.
"Right now in out-of-the box as-cast form there is only one choice for a 383-396 cube LT1 motor. That is AFR 210-227cc Eliminators."
I have never built an engine, but the results from AI's work is enough for me to chose them for my future build. Also u can buy a head/cam package from them, which would probably be best because they know what works best with each other.
here is a combo i found, they say the head is cnc ported and extra hand ported, such as the work AI does.
Combo 71 comes from pages 84-94 the March 1998 issue of Super Chevy.
Combo 71 discusses a 383 cu. in. small block that makes 525 HP and 535 ft-lbs of torque. The engine has great heads, a very healthy street roller camshaft, and a stout bottom end. The camshaft has a lot of valve lift, with 0.614 in. of valve lift on the exhaust side and 0.592 in. on the intake. This engine is still very streetable—the compression ratio is only 9.4:1 and the heads only have 190 cc intake runners. With more of the racing treatment, this engine could have easily made over 650 HP. Of course, only street engines are shown here.
Displacement: 383 cu. in.
Carburetor: Barry Grant Silver Claw 750
Heads: Air Flow Research 190, with 2.02/1.60 in. valves, 190 cc intake runners, CNC porting, and extra hand-porting
Intake: Edelbrock Performer RPM
Camshaft: Comp Cams hydraulic roller, with 235/242° of duration @ 0.050 in. of lift, and 0.555/0.576 in. of lift (Corrected valve lift with 1.6:1 rockers is 0.592/0.614 in.)
Rockers: Comp Cams 1.6:1
Pistons: TRW forged
Rods: Lunati 5.7 in.
Crank: Scat 8060 cast
Timing: 36°
Comp. Ratio: 9.4:1
MAX HP: 525 @ 5800
MAX Torque: 535 @ 4200
__________________ 97 Firedbird Formula A4
K&N CAI, Spohn LCAs, Spohn Panhard bar
i think AI would be the better choice on this one. they can hook you up wit a custom cam to match your needs. i just bought a set of trickflow 220cc heads from tea they r beautiful heads and flow really good had them spec me a cam as well and for a set of heads that flows better and is about $500 less they're real nice cant wait to try them out.
For a max effort n/a street strip 383 which heads the Competition AFR 210 eliminators or the AI 215 TFS heads and also what cam? I have a GM 847 cam already but I'm not married to it, I'm just wondering for down the road.
For a "max effort" street engine you need to take whatever you have now and sh!t can it.
Of course my idea of "max effort" and your idea of it is probably different. I built my max effort engine.
I would go with the AFR's, then turn them over to a good porter.
Go buy this months GM & High tech, has an AWESOME article on LT1 heads, they did a dyno test.
__________________ 94 Z, Cahall 4L60E, solid roller 383 LT1, 3600lbs. 10.58@126, 1.43 60ft, pumpgas and radials. ALL MOTOR STREETCAR!
For a "max effort" street engine you need to take whatever you have now and sh!t can it.
Of course my idea of "max effort" and your idea of it is probably different. I built my max effort engine.
I would go with the AFR's, then turn them over to a good porter.
Go buy this months GM & High tech, has an AWESOME article on LT1 heads, they did a dyno test.
+1, a true max effort NA build IMO would be a 408 or 396 with a huge solid roller and converted SB2.2s. Looking at biiiggggg $$$'s by the time all is said and done, and forget about driving it on the street.
I would instead just call it an "aggressive" NA build, and use a fairly large HR cam with ported AFRs or converted SBC heads. Ported stock intake would work, but a single plane and aftermarket engine management would be better.
__________________ 93 Med Pat Red Z28: 11.72 NA Stock Shortblock, All motor 10.XX second HR build underway... 07 ZX6R Ninja: Bottom 10's NA w/ a few bolt-ons...
\/\/\/-Stock 10-bolt F T W-\/\/\/
Apparently from the Street Racing section everyone and their mothers Honda beats crotch rockets now lol.
Why buy the AFRs only to send them off and have everything changed? Do it right the first time.
Because they have more potential. There is not much native to an LTX that can outflow properly ported AFRs.
Now whether or not you can use the extra flow depends on the combo as a whole. No point in sacrificing low end for no reason if the rest of your build can't keep up. You can "over-head" an engine.
__________________ 93 Med Pat Red Z28: 11.72 NA Stock Shortblock, All motor 10.XX second HR build underway... 07 ZX6R Ninja: Bottom 10's NA w/ a few bolt-ons...
\/\/\/-Stock 10-bolt F T W-\/\/\/
Apparently from the Street Racing section everyone and their mothers Honda beats crotch rockets now lol.
The AI 215 Trickflows are PROVEN to be as good a LT1 head as is available. The rest of the arguments amount to nothing more than bench racing.
I love the TFS heads, and AI and TEA both have impressive packages using them as a foundation. However, if you are into facts and results a staggering majority of the fastest LTXs are all running afrs in one form or another. That can't be just a coincidence .
With brodix being willing to accomodate us with any of their castings in LTX flavor, and dart supposedly working on a block, its a matter of time before we see 18X and aggressively ported track1s on big cube LTX builds.
Also, I am waiting to see what AI can do with the 21* TFS heads.
__________________ 93 Med Pat Red Z28: 11.72 NA Stock Shortblock, All motor 10.XX second HR build underway... 07 ZX6R Ninja: Bottom 10's NA w/ a few bolt-ons...
\/\/\/-Stock 10-bolt F T W-\/\/\/
Apparently from the Street Racing section everyone and their mothers Honda beats crotch rockets now lol.
The newer AFR's are definitely a nice product. The probability is that built properly, you will be happy with either. However, realize that the head with all the potential in the world is going to put up mediocre #'s if the rest of the setup is lacking. Consider pausing for a moment and examining your budget vs. the ability to use either head to their potential. If you have to cut corners elsewhere, we'd suggest moving to our 200cc CNC'd GM head to reallocate funds to where they are needed. If you are wanting to run naturally aspirated, then do some research on the fast NA cars.
The assumption that "flow" in and of itself is an indicator of potential is largely responsible for keeping many in the LT community running the same #'s year after year. Flowbench #'s are released precisely because they're incomparable and meaningless without qualification. It is much easier to market arbitrary data so as to ensure you aren't 'giving away' information of significance. Even in cases where the inherently superior casting (i.e. 18deg) is suggested, the fact remains that their efficiency range is outside the operating range 99% of engines/setups are built for.
Take your time (if possible), do more research on results & established trends vs. singular fast cars, and resist the temptation to purchase parts here & there piecemeal. Good luck with your project!
__________________
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CNC Ported Cylinder Heads | Private Label Development & Production | Valvetrain Systems
WOW this is great, let me start by clarifying a few things judging by some of the responses here alot of them have been geared more toward a max effort drag racing setup which is not what I'm trying to do with this setup. I want to build the most power I can from a 383 on pump gas, the car is a daily driver which I run at the track on test and tune/grudge nights. It will still be a full weight all accessories car which can be driven anytime anywhere, that being said I want the most powerful combo I can get for the money. I recently came into a little cash and have changed my plans slightly, I was going to do a budget 383 with home ported heads but have since sold that setup so here's what I have so far:
Block - fully race prepped and machined 4 bolt billet splayed caps, square decked, bored .030 and plate honed, align bored/honed mains etc.
Crank - 4340 forged Howards Tracksmart 3.75" stroke
Rods - Howards 4340 H beams 6" arp 2000 cap screws
Pistons - Mahle forged ft
Cam - GM 847 hr 234/242@.050 .575"/.595" w 1.6 rr
Lifters - GM Caddy Racing hr
Timing set - Rollmaster billet double roller
Oilpan - Canton 244t 7qt with pickup
Misc - clearanced timing cover to clear double roller setup, CSI ewp, Comp 1.6 Promags
The best N/A numbers on a street/strip LT1 engine, I have seen is only based off a 396, high compression, ported stock heads, forged, had a direct port 300 shot on it. But I had never seen him dyno at our shop with the Nitrous. 43x hp not sure what the torque was, it has been a while. Good luck on your build keep us informed.
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The best N/A numbers on a street/strip LT1 engine, I have seen is only based off a 396, high compression, ported stock heads, forged, had a direct port 300 shot on it. But I had never seen him dyno at our shop with the Nitrous. 43x hp not sure what the torque was, it has been a while. Good luck on your build keep us informed.
Those numbers aint so hot.
N2o dave made 6xx to the WHEELS(I think, upper 500's I know) with a 396 all motor LT1.
Hell I made 470 to the wheels through a 9 inch and a 4l60E trans, on Ed Wrights stingy dyno.
2 others along with Ed wright have made over 500 to the wheels all motor through automatics with the LT1.
__________________ 94 Z, Cahall 4L60E, solid roller 383 LT1, 3600lbs. 10.58@126, 1.43 60ft, pumpgas and radials. ALL MOTOR STREETCAR!
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 07-07-2009 at 04:25 PM..
Nitro Dave's is SB2.2 isn't it?? How is that applicable?
Ed's is welded up LT4s with 14:1 compression.
I can think of another car quite comparable to Ed's that went 9.88 on GM heads and intake without welding at 11.7:1 compression and same car later went 9.5 on pump gas with Trickflow castings and a small single plane intake.
Yes it is solid roller but still a hell of a lot closer to what this guys wants that the other stuff being thrown around as examples.
Nitro Dave's is SB2.2 isn't it?? How is that applicable?
Ed's is welded up LT4s with 14:1 compression.
I can think of another car quite comparable to Ed's that went 9.88 on GM heads and intake without welding at 11.7:1 compression and same car later went 9.5 on pump gas with Trickflow castings and a small single plane intake.
Yes it is solid roller but still a hell of a lot closer to what this guys wants that the other stuff being thrown around as examples.
N20 dave is still an LT1, regardless of the heads.
And yes your Ai cars are in there as well.
Ed Wrights car had LT4 heads and intake,Why would he weld his heads? His intake may have been, thats a common mod, how in the hell does THAT car NOT apply?????????????????????????????? Oh wait, Im sorry its not an Ai shop car, he built and tuned it himself. Is that the reason?
And BTW Abares car and Ed's car on the same track same day ran almost the same times back in the day when they were comparably modded.
Damn man, get off the high horse.
__________________ 94 Z, Cahall 4L60E, solid roller 383 LT1, 3600lbs. 10.58@126, 1.43 60ft, pumpgas and radials. ALL MOTOR STREETCAR!
Max power 383 which head AFR 210 eliminator or AI TFS 215? 
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96 camaro,LT4 solidroller 383,single plane intake with 90mm accufab tb,afr 210cc heads,th400 with t brake 5200 ati stall,26 inch et drags
