But as Caprice said, when the young ones ASK for advice or help...they want to tell you MORE than you know. If that was the case why did they ask anyway?
The search function on here works DAMN good, read and learn.
It takes cubic DOLLARS to go fast not cubic inches. WHen kids realize THAT they will be WAY ahead of the game. Makes no difference what the engine is, that rule will ALWAYS remain the same.
i agree 100%. i try to tell myself, its due to their nuts still being in their stomach but you know. we all take the good with the bad.
The popularity is definitely dwindling, but LT1 owners are still out there. Mine is still sitting in pieces due to limited time to work on my own stuff.
True the LSx parts are plentiful & have excellent potential compared to an 18yr old LT1 design, but what should we do with all the investment already in these cars? It's not like I want to spend $20K to build a new LSx motor & supercharger just to make a little more power than I already have. I don't need to have the fastest car, or need to support my ego, or care to impress anyone for that matter. I bought it 15yrs ago because I like it & probably will never sell it.... & no I will never put a new style front end on it.
Hopefully these cars will start to increase in value as they age. Remember 20yr old kids were once driving 67-69 Camaro's that were old school. Glad I kept my '68. After 20yrs, it is nice to see the value is much greater than the investment.
It takes cubic DOLLARS to go fast not cubic inches. WHen kids realize THAT they will be WAY ahead of the game. Makes no difference what the engine is, that rule will ALWAYS remain the same
What's really funny is that the LTx engine is not very far behind the LSx motor in terms of performance.... Big Rick went 8.08 with a huge single turbo on an LT1. Unfortunately the block being an OEM block will not handle all that power for long. But the fact he did it with 23 degree heads and an OEM casted LTx block is all the more unbelieveable....
so the top LTx motor-8.08
top LSx turbo motors-are running 7.50's-7.80's... But keep in mind these are LSX block based or C5R based deals. HUGE money in those powertrains.... and they running what like 11 degree heads?!?!?!?! So the lowly LT is 3 tenths behind the top LSx motors running RIGHT NOW. And Rick did it like 3 years ago....
Looking at the top nitrous LSx list....
They range from 8.1's to 8.6's..... Not sure of the exact setups on these cars but i'm sure most are big 400+ cubic inch nitrous huffing monsters...
Currently we have about 2 in the 8's and 3 more either weather or tuning time away from running in the 8's (me tony and joey kenville) hell joey kenville did it at altitude so if he runs at sealevel he's there... Again I think the BLOCK is the limiting factor and how much power we can make with our 23 degree heads vs their stuff.... If they can make 700hp on motor and hit it with a 400 shot low 8's maybe.... but we're lucky if we can make 600hp with these heads winding the shit out of our motors.....we'll require a 500 shot to go just as fast.... and either split the block or burn a piston...
Even still we're only on average about 4-5 tenths off the TOP 10 Nitrous LS1's in the world... Superchargers are the only ones lacking since nobody has yet built a serious gear drive procharger setup on an LT1.... When dollars start flying you can build a serious LTx piece for about what you will have in an LS motor. they just have more options when it comes to a strong foundation to build a serious 1,000+ hp motor.....
so for anyone thinking the LS is that much better the gap is not as big as you might think. For the average guy with average bolt ons yeah.... but for serious builds the LTx motor is not that bad. It's just an SBC with reverse cooling...
__________________ THE OUTLAW
1995 Camaro Z28 1LE West Coasts Fastest LT1 period.. CSM Racing Engines 383 LT1, AFR 227's, SR Cam, Jesel shaft rockers, Lunati crank, Oliver rods, sngl plane, Accufab TB, Nitrous Pro Flow plate, ATI TH400, Moser 9", FAST XFI
10.62@128 all motor
9.06@153.8, 1.35 60' ft on the bottle, 5.76 1/8th mile (aborted 8 second pass )
My youtube videos here--->http://www.youtube.com/user/tensecLT1
oh and the fastest true M6(6 gears) is a LT1 also Congrats Taner!
__________________
LE2, Speedinc, Bedroom built 355, T56
LE2 H/C/I, Speedinc tuned, LPP, UMI, BMR, Dana S60, Street twin, blah blah blah.......
2nd place EX NA at LTXshootout
I could have had a procharged LSX for what I have into my build, and made a ton more power with still better streetability instead of it being an obnoxious loud NA build . I think I'm like the only LTX guy that goes to my speed shop - the rest are corvettes, LSX f-bodies, and LSX swapped muscle cars.
I totally agree! I actually bought a 00 LS1 and got rid of it for another LT1.
Just something about them has me hooked for life!
Im very lucky to have a great shop that deals with lots of LT1s though!
Speedinc rocks!
__________________
LE2, Speedinc, Bedroom built 355, T56
LE2 H/C/I, Speedinc tuned, LPP, UMI, BMR, Dana S60, Street twin, blah blah blah.......
2nd place EX NA at LTXshootout
I miss all the old people like Mindgame(the man was brilliant), the dude with the sb2.2 lt1...alot of the newbies dont even know who these people are but they should do there research.
yeah even though someone else claims to have the fastest 6 speed car..... can't expect that guy to be honest....
we all know taner is the one that owns the record.... it's got ALL 6 forward gears...
__________________ THE OUTLAW
1995 Camaro Z28 1LE West Coasts Fastest LT1 period.. CSM Racing Engines 383 LT1, AFR 227's, SR Cam, Jesel shaft rockers, Lunati crank, Oliver rods, sngl plane, Accufab TB, Nitrous Pro Flow plate, ATI TH400, Moser 9", FAST XFI
10.62@128 all motor
9.06@153.8, 1.35 60' ft on the bottle, 5.76 1/8th mile (aborted 8 second pass )
My youtube videos here--->http://www.youtube.com/user/tensecLT1
I mean really how can you make that claim with 4 forward gears. Taner owns it!!
__________________
LE2, Speedinc, Bedroom built 355, T56
LE2 H/C/I, Speedinc tuned, LPP, UMI, BMR, Dana S60, Street twin, blah blah blah.......
2nd place EX NA at LTXshootout
What's really funny is that the LTx engine is not very far behind the LSx motor in terms of performance.... Big Rick went 8.08 with a huge single turbo on an LT1. Unfortunately the block being an OEM block will not handle all that power for long. But the fact he did it with 23 degree heads and an OEM casted LTx block is all the more unbelieveable....
so the top LTx motor-8.08
top LSx turbo motors-are running 7.50's-7.80's... But keep in mind these are LSX block based or C5R based deals. HUGE money in those powertrains.... and they running what like 11 degree heads?!?!?!?! So the lowly LT is 3 tenths behind the top LSx motors running RIGHT NOW. And Rick did it like 3 years ago....
Looking at the top nitrous LSx list....
They range from 8.1's to 8.6's..... Not sure of the exact setups on these cars but i'm sure most are big 400+ cubic inch nitrous huffing monsters...
Currently we have about 2 in the 8's and 3 more either weather or tuning time away from running in the 8's (me tony and joey kenville) hell joey kenville did it at altitude so if he runs at sealevel he's there... Again I think the BLOCK is the limiting factor and how much power we can make with our 23 degree heads vs their stuff.... If they can make 700hp on motor and hit it with a 400 shot low 8's maybe.... but we're lucky if we can make 600hp with these heads winding the shit out of our motors.....we'll require a 500 shot to go just as fast.... and either split the block or burn a piston...
Even still we're only on average about 4-5 tenths off the TOP 10 Nitrous LS1's in the world... Superchargers are the only ones lacking since nobody has yet built a serious gear drive procharger setup on an LT1.... When dollars start flying you can build a serious LTx piece for about what you will have in an LS motor. they just have more options when it comes to a strong foundation to build a serious 1,000+ hp motor.....
so for anyone thinking the LS is that much better the gap is not as big as you might think. For the average guy with average bolt ons yeah.... but for serious builds the LTx motor is not that bad. It's just an SBC with reverse cooling...
Well said.
It gets to a point where the engine you started with is not nearly as important as how much you are willing to spend and how much research you do all just to drop another little .1th off your time. Open up your minds(and your wallet) and there is no reason besides money why you can't convert some nasty SBC race heads, a huge solid roller, run ultra high compression with race gas, and make an all out over 700+hp NA LTX. It seems 600hp NA smallblock SBCs are a dime a dozen, but for an LTX its somehow unheard of.
It's just an SBC after all . I hope to make near 600 flywheel not only NA, but with a hydraulic roller and 23* heads . Maybe I'm crazy and am just dreaming, and I'll come up way short and get laughed at - or maybe I am on the right track for one potent street/strip setup .
You bring up a good point about the supercharged cars...how long until someone builds a super low compression, fully filled, forged 396 and custom fabs a huge roots blower on it for some good old-fashioned 1,000+ horsepower mayhem? Can you imagine the low end torque that thing would have??? Scenarios like that really would have benefited from the Dart block before they nixed the project .
__________________ >>>Lotsa LTX Goodies for sale cheap!!!<<< 93 Med Pat Red Z28: 11.72 NA Stock Shortblock, Soon to be one *NASTY* All motor, GTP Ported AFR 220 headed, LE cammed, 23* hydraulic roller 383...eventually >.< 07 ZX6R Ninja: Bottom 10's w/ only gearing+exhaust...
\/\/\/-Stock 10-bolt F T W-\/\/\/
Apparently from the Street Racing section everyone and their mothers Honda beats crotch rockets now lol.
I miss all the old people like Mindgame(the man was brilliant), the dude with the sb2.2 lt1...alot of the newbies dont even know who these people are but they should do there research.
True, Alan and Dave were pretty awesome to learn from....Bert, not so much.
__________________ Michael 1967 Chevelle SS 496ci 1997 Camaro Z28 385ci 2007 Corvette Z06 427ci
What's really funny is that the LTx engine is not very far behind the LSx motor in terms of performance....
Yikes... comparing FI engines maybe, but I don't read a whole lot of cam only LT1's in the 118 to 120+mph range. Besides we are just seeing what is being done with LS3 cam/headers results and it kind of knocks that theory the fuck out...
__________________ We had a good run, Pops: 4/5/43 - 10/18/09
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS #597 M6
395.3 SR with bead blasted cam lobes to add x-tra x-tra lifter roller traction. That's what wins races!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack @ CRD
Bret, we have never heard of or dealt with you or "Bauer Racing Engines."
Yikes... comparing FI engines maybe, but I don't read a whole lot of cam only LT1's in the 118 to 120+mph range. Besides we are just seeing what is being done with LS3 cam/headers results and it kind of knocks that theory the fuck out...
His last sentence covers that...for the average bolt-on or cammed build the LSX has a huge advantage, but when you get into serious race setups the differences that you started out with are not that important any more.
__________________ >>>Lotsa LTX Goodies for sale cheap!!!<<< 93 Med Pat Red Z28: 11.72 NA Stock Shortblock, Soon to be one *NASTY* All motor, GTP Ported AFR 220 headed, LE cammed, 23* hydraulic roller 383...eventually >.< 07 ZX6R Ninja: Bottom 10's w/ only gearing+exhaust...
\/\/\/-Stock 10-bolt F T W-\/\/\/
Apparently from the Street Racing section everyone and their mothers Honda beats crotch rockets now lol.
His last sentence covers that...for the average bolt-on or cammed build the LSX has a huge advantage, but when you get into serious race setups the differences that you started out with are not that important any more.
You mean this sentence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutlawZ
Even still we're only on average about 4-5 tenths off the TOP 10 Nitrous LS1's in the world...
So are the top LS1's in the world running what.. 7's? Low 8's? If that's the case 4 to 5 tenths in 7 to 8 second cars is a HUGE gap.
__________________ We had a good run, Pops: 4/5/43 - 10/18/09
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS #597 M6
395.3 SR with bead blasted cam lobes to add x-tra x-tra lifter roller traction. That's what wins races!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack @ CRD
Bret, we have never heard of or dealt with you or "Bauer Racing Engines."
Yikes... comparing FI engines maybe, but I don't read a whole lot of cam only LT1's in the 118 to 120+mph range. Besides we are just seeing what is being done with LS3 cam/headers results and it kind of knocks that theory the fuck out...
Frank95z-11.15 119.86 95Z28 Bolt-ons/3325/Cam only
Put this car at 3000lbs like MOST LS cam only cars and it would run in the 10.80's at 122 ish With a six speed who knows. The above was done a LOOOONG time ago.
Why do you guys think a LT1 is a one off, its a small block chebby man.
__________________ 94 Z, Cahall 4L60E, solid roller 383 LT1, 3600lbs. 10.58@126, 1.43 60ft, pumpgas and radials. ALL MOTOR STREETCAR!
Frank95z-11.15 119.86 95Z28 Bolt-ons/3325/Cam only
That is with a pretty mild cam. If someone really wanted to, they could go pretty fast with a cam only LT1. The LS1 guys that run the big numbers are running pretty stout grinds and are fly cutting valve notches in their pistons. But, that said, a head that flows 205 cfm will only make so much HP.
Whatever. There is always a lot of "shoulda coulda woulda" on the internet, but you just don't see a LTx coming close outperforming anything LSx related with the same type of mods at the track. The example you give regarding that LTx means it would take an incredible amount of detail to get those kind of times whereas in a LSx, just throw the popular "run-of-the-mill" shelf grind cam, get some seat time and you are there. And no, the LSx f-bodys don't have to weigh 33xx to go 120mph. There are a few cars running around this area that have been in the low 11's at 122mph with a 3600lb race weight.
Besides that Frank also has admitted to vacuum problems and it not being the best thing to drive on the street with the kind of cam he ran to get those times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GIZMO
That is with a pretty mild cam.
Out of curiosity, what are the numbers? Can't be that mild if he's complaining about low vacuum.
__________________ We had a good run, Pops: 4/5/43 - 10/18/09
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS #597 M6
395.3 SR with bead blasted cam lobes to add x-tra x-tra lifter roller traction. That's what wins races!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack @ CRD
Bret, we have never heard of or dealt with you or "Bauer Racing Engines."
Its the heads.... LT1 heads like someone said will only make so much power flowing like 200 cfm on a good day.... stock LS heads flow way over that... so putting a cam in one of thsoe cars makes a difference... in an LTx not so much....
not to mention our cars are iron block tanks compared to LS aluminum blocks...
Quote:
So are the top LS1's in the world running what.. 7's? Low 8's? If that's the case 4 to 5 tenths in 7 to 8 second cars is a HUGE gap
Yes 4 tenths is a huge gap when running that fast.... but keep in mind that the LTx guys running these numbers aren't done... Average big dog LS nitrous guys are running 8.50's or so (I should say an 8.50 will get you on the top ten list and not at the end, solidly in the middle)..... So far the LT platform has gotten an 8.9x.... However I don't think we've reached the bottom of as fast as we can go.... I think an LTx will eventually whittle the nitrous record down into the 8.7 range... could be mine, could be someone else's.... I know my engine was built for a 500 shot.... but gotta creep up on that kinda power level....
__________________ THE OUTLAW
1995 Camaro Z28 1LE West Coasts Fastest LT1 period.. CSM Racing Engines 383 LT1, AFR 227's, SR Cam, Jesel shaft rockers, Lunati crank, Oliver rods, sngl plane, Accufab TB, Nitrous Pro Flow plate, ATI TH400, Moser 9", FAST XFI
10.62@128 all motor
9.06@153.8, 1.35 60' ft on the bottle, 5.76 1/8th mile (aborted 8 second pass )
My youtube videos here--->http://www.youtube.com/user/tensecLT1
Understood, however because the LSx aftermarket is being actively researched and revamped I just don't see the LTx platform catching up.
__________________ We had a good run, Pops: 4/5/43 - 10/18/09
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS #597 M6
395.3 SR with bead blasted cam lobes to add x-tra x-tra lifter roller traction. That's what wins races!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack @ CRD
Bret, we have never heard of or dealt with you or "Bauer Racing Engines."
)
Congrats Taner!
. I think I'm like the only LTX guy that goes to my speed shop - the rest are corvettes, LSX f-bodies, and LSX swapped muscle cars.
. I hope to make near 600 flywheel not only NA, but with a hydraulic roller and 23* heads 
. Maybe I'm crazy and am just dreaming, and I'll come up way short and get laughed at - or maybe I am on the right track for one potent street/strip setup 
.
.
