Does YOUR Clutch Setup need a Shim?

[loreak]

so if a shim is needed to change engagement........whats an adjustable master do?

[BADDLS1SS]

Ok here is my dilema... Spec twin disc setup... Im gettin 2" on the head for measurement "A" and 2" for measurement "B" as well. That leaves me no gap at all.

This is with a stock slave and the throwout that came with the spec twin disc kit, no spacer at all under the slave. I also have a Mcleod adj master too. No the spacer is not stuck in the slave too, i triple checked that.

My main gripe is that the clutch engagment point is too high in the pedal travel and i have to adjust the pedal way down to get it more in the middle where i want it.

Anyone ran into this no gap at all issue before?

[breecher_7]

Originally Posted by BADDLS1SS

Ok here is my dilema... Spec twin disc setup... Im gettin 2" on the head for measurement "A" and 2" for measurement "B" as well. That leaves me no gap at all.

This is with a stock slave and the throwout that came with the spec twin disc kit, no spacer at all under the slave. I also have a Mcleod adj master too. No the spacer is not stuck in the slave too, i triple checked that.

My main gripe is that the clutch engagment point is too high in the pedal travel and i have to adjust the pedal way down to get it more in the middle where i want it.

Anyone ran into this no gap at all issue before?

I think you need a drink Tom...

I thought about this all night, I dont understand why it would be like that unless somthing mechanically MOVED forward or backward in the trans or on the engine but we both know that odds of that are about as good as $10,000,000 showing up in my bank account. Did you call spec and ask them how much space there was when they R&D'ed these things? If you need somthing machined out, let me know, ill see if i can do it.

[Sweetred95ta]

Originally Posted by Jonathan@Tick

As the clutch breaks in the gap will become a bit less and less. Too much gap however, and there will be dissengagement and shifting issues due to a dragging clutch.

I don't understand this statement. I just put the motor/transmission into my car. After I had measured, "B" was ~1/16 less than "A". I called it good and continued with the install. I figured once the clutch was broke in, the gap would grow due to the fact that the disc becomes thinner and the fingers would pull in towards (away from the TOB). If the pressure plate fingers move in, "A" becomes larger and the gap grows (to 3/16-1/4 of an inch). Am I thinking incorrectly?

[2 fast motorsports]

ttt......

[Sweetred95ta]

Originally Posted by Sweetred95ta

I don't understand this statement. I just put the motor/transmission into my car. After I had measured, "B" was ~1/16 less than "A". I called it good and continued with the install. I figured once the clutch was broke in, the gap would grow due to the fact that the disc becomes thinner and the fingers would pull in towards (away from the TOB). If the pressure plate fingers move in, "A" becomes larger and the gap grows (to 3/16-1/4 of an inch). Am I thinking incorrectly?

After having a PM session with Jonathan@Tick, he helped me see the light. The pressure plate fingers actually extend towards the TOB when the clutch disc becomes thinner. It all makes sense now.

[Jonathan@Tick]

If anyone needs any help with this, just shoot me a pm and I'll get back to you ask soon as I can.

[z28evans]

To shim or not -

New slave, new Mcleod Single disc, turned Spec flywheel (not some sort of super secret setup, stuff laying around). Measured distance of 0.29in, assembled and bled some. Soft pedal, slight pressure at floor. bled it a bit and it didn't get better. Replaced the master with a new one, bled some more - still feels the same.

So, do i need to bleed some more - or am i to far for the throw out bearing? On paper it seems that everything should be fine?

Thanks,
James

[boostinsidewayz]

i am in the process of installing a mcleod twin disc i got used. when i went to measure the gap i got .27 then i realized the bearing is supposed to be seated against the slave. now its like 2 inches?!



is that how the bearing is supposed to be when i measure it?

[why me]

Originally Posted by Jonathan@Tick

Yeah, heres "A":

how do i measure this?

and is there a way to measure a few more things? like faceplate of trany to polit bearing is X length minus cluctch and that gets me "A" length?

thanks

oh i have a mcleaod twin disk and was going to use stock gm slave with tick adjustmaster. so if anyone has done this please let me know if i need a shim. thanks

[why me]

^^^ seriously no one? come on guys. i need this. lol

[bearcatt]

I found this easier. I actually printed it up and took it with me.

I came out at about 3/16" or .187

http://www.ramclutches.com/Tech/Tech...%20Bearing.jpg



.

[z28evans]

I still don't understand why a shim is needed in most of these cases. I can understand the measuring, etc. but since the seal in the slave floats and the stroke of the pedal is such that you should not be over extending the slave even if the gap is up to 0.4 in or possibly more.

Why is a shim needed?

from another post i made -

OEM Master (3/4 in) - Un-installed, full stroke
Stroke 1.06 in *un-installed full range of travel
O.D. 0.75 in
Wet area 0.44 in2
Volume 0.47 in3

OEM Master (3/4 in) - installed stroke (doesn't bottom out in my car)
Stroke 0.75 in
O.D. 0.75 in
Wet area 0.44 in2
Volume 0.33 in3

OEM Slave
Range 0.96 in
O.D 1.86 in
I.D. 1.43 in
Wet area 1.11 in2
Volume 1.07 in3

Factory Master / Slave ratio 3.2 (3 strokes in car to fully move slave through travel.

So, why would a shim be needed?

I spoke with a person at 2 different clutch related companies, only to have them stumped when i got to specifics.

[bearcatt]

It appears that shims are needed for some aftermarket clutches.
The geometry and dimensions are sometimes different.

There really is no reason for a stock clutch to need a shim because the stack height should usually be more consistant. With that said the slave was designed around the stock Luk clutches. So was the master for that matter.

Even with the correct stack height... anything other than the stock LS1 or LS6 clutch usually has disengagement and peddle issues. This isn't because of dimensions, it's because the stock master cylinder is to weak to disengage most clutches with higher pressure.

The Tick m/c is a breath of fresh air. Thier billet bracket fitted to a Tilton cylinder is just what we needed.

After being plagued with clutch issues for years it seems Tick was aware of the inherent hydraulic weakness and came up with a solution.


.

[30birdy99]

I took my measurements according to everything i have read. and i am at 3/16s air gap. meaning i am 1/16 too much. What should i do. this has a monster clutch btw and a tick rebuild in it. any help would be appreciated. thank you.

[SNLPerformance]

Originally Posted by 30birdy99

I took my measurements according to everything i have read. and i am at 3/16s air gap. meaning i am 1/16 too much. What should i do. this has a monster clutch btw and a tick rebuild in it. any help would be appreciated. thank you.

Our clutches do not require shims, I'll be calling you shortly!

[TurboBerserker]

Wow, awesome thread!

Subscribing so I can find it again next week when I do my manual conversion.

[30thAnvSS]

is this just for an ls1 or does it apply to an lt1 as well???

[MACS SS]

Originally Posted by 30thAnvSS

is this just for an ls1 or does it apply to an lt1 as well???

Read post #30 on page 3.

[LS1HIGHLIFE]

Great info! I'd like to personally thank Joey with Tick Performance for the awesome customer support and willingness to help me diagnose a leaking master cyl problem I'm having. I look forward to doing business with you guys in the future.