ls7 clutch issues

rabiddog · 10-17-2009, 02:23 PM

OK I have installed a ls7 clutch, ls7 flywheel, slave, and a master. I bled the lines clutch is firm but not disengaging!! Whats the deal? Any Pointers?

SSmokin99 · 10-17-2009, 02:43 PM

Do you have the stock hydraulics?

ODAWG · 10-17-2009, 08:50 PM

sounds like you have air in the hydraulics. try the vacuum pump method of bleeding the system.

rabiddog · 10-18-2009, 09:59 AM

ok I will look that up and give it a shot.

Yes it is a stock hydraulic system.

rabiddog · 10-19-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODAWG

sounds like you have air in the hydraulics. try the vacuum pump method of bleeding the system.

ok I couldn't get ahold of a vacuum pump so I just went to bleeding again and I have gone through 3 big canasters of brake fluid over about 2hours. There is still a crapload of air in the lines.

I have looked around for any leaks and cannot find any fluid leaking.

How long should it take to bleed and is there something I am missing?

Incase I failed to mention I have a speed bleeder from tick attached to the slave.

crainholio · 10-20-2009, 07:00 AM

Are you having somebody smoosh the pedal to the floor, then opening the bleeder? If so, wrong way.

Right way is to open the bleeder, have somebody push the pedal to the floor, then close the bleeder. Gotta move fluid to get the air out.

rabiddog · 10-20-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crainholio

Are you having somebody smoosh the pedal to the floor, then opening the bleeder? If so, wrong way.

Right way is to open the bleeder, have somebody push the pedal to the floor, then close the bleeder. Gotta move fluid to get the air out.

I have the speed bleeder on it which has a check in it to prevent fluid or air from going back in the line. So all I am doing is pumping the pedal slowly. With every pump I get a crapload of air.

I am guessing something is wrong somewhere to be getting this air in the lines.

I have been through 3 big bottles of DOT 3 and have no changes.

Jontall · 10-20-2009, 05:29 PM

Is the throw-out bearing installed on the slave? Or maybe you need a shim; was the fly wheel cut? Did you measure? Does YOUR Clutch Setup need a Shim?

rabiddog · 10-21-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jontall

Is the throw-out bearing installed on the slave? Or maybe you need a shim; was the fly wheel cut? Did you measure? Does YOUR Clutch Setup need a Shim?

I am pretty sure everything is alright but I did not measure. I installed all new LS7 flywheel, LS7 Clutch, slave w/ tick speed bleeder, and a regular master.

What its looking like is that either somehow air is getting into my lines either from where the speed bleeder is attached to the slave or the new master I installed is a POS. Kindof leaning toward master at the moment.

SPEC-01 · 10-21-2009, 11:30 AM

Or, since the stock LS7 part uses an SAC-type (Self-Adjusting Cover) pressure-plate you could have a jammed adjuster that is causing the plate to hang-up. This isn't that unusual especially of the plate is torqued fully on one side before being torque elsewhere. With an SAC plate is it imperative that the pressure-plate to flywheel bolts be torque in a star pattern (as you would when putting a wheel on your car). This can also happen as a result of an inconsistent flywheel surface or even a disc that isn't consistently thick. The only way to assess this it to pull the trans and examine the compression/extension of the SAC springs (as memory serves there are 3) that can be seen when looking at the top of the pressure-plate (dependent on perspective). Let me know if you have any further questions about this. If you decide to pull the trans post some pictures and I will be happy to take a look and let you know if anything looks out of place. Thanks,

rabiddog · 10-21-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEC-01

Or, since the stock LS7 part uses an SAC-type (Self-Adjusting Cover) pressure-plate you could have a jammed adjuster that is causing the plate to hang-up. This isn't that unusual especially of the plate is torqued fully on one side before being torque elsewhere. With an SAC plate is it imperative that the pressure-plate to flywheel bolts be torque in a star pattern (as you would when putting a wheel on your car). This can also happen as a result of an inconsistent flywheel surface or even a disc that isn't consistently thick. The only way to assess this it to pull the trans and examine the compression/extension of the SAC springs (as memory serves there are 3) that can be seen when looking at the top of the pressure-plate (dependent on perspective). Let me know if you have any further questions about this. If you decide to pull the trans post some pictures and I will be happy to take a look and let you know if anything looks out of place. Thanks,

I did torque in a star pattern but if it comes down to having to pull the tranny again I will take some picks. I also might load a video on you tube here pretty soon showing you what the bleed looks like.

The problems that you quoted look to me that you would still be able to bleed the system. correct me if I am wrong.

SPEC-01 · 10-21-2009, 02:57 PM

Sure! I would be happy to look at pics or a video. Issues with the SAC-system will not affect the ability to bleed the hydraulics. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks,

bearcatt · 10-21-2009, 03:00 PM

The LS7 does not use a shim.

From 98 to early 01, F-bodies had LS1 clutches with the older hydraulics.

I actually called and talked to a Luk rep.

The new OEM upgraded GM stock hydraulics on these cars are designed for the LS6 clutch not the LS7 clutch.
The LS6 clutch has a little more pressure over the original LS1 clutch.
GM now only offers the LS6 clutch as an OEM replacement.

So ...

Most likely your problems are hydraulic.
It may feel good at the peddle, while not having enough
pressure to disengage your clutch correctly.

My personal experience...

First I tried a brand new pre-bled OEM GM master cylinder...
That helped but still was not disengaging as good as it should.

The only way I was able to get my LS7 to work properly
was to upgrade to a Tick m/c... that was the end of my clutch
problems, it's been about 4K so far. I estimate this clutch will last me
a loooooong time.

It sucked having to spend another $300 for the Tick.

I have two other cars with manual transmissions in them.
You pulled the tranny install the clutch, re-install the tranny,
change out the fluid and go. You don't have to sit there and dick
around with it for days.

I've never owned a car with such a damn picky clutch system.

It's not only F-bodies that have picky clutch systems...
Vettes, GTOs also have issues as well.

Once you get a formula figured out that works good for you, than it's all good.

.

rabiddog · 10-21-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcatt

The LS7 does not use a shim.

From 98 to early 01, F-bodies had LS1 clutches with the older hydraulics..

Thanks bearcatt,

I was planning on getting the tick until the air conditioner went out at the house and the dog got heartworms. Decided to save some money and just get a stock master. Wasted my money with that from the looks of it.

bearcatt · 10-21-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabiddog

Thanks bearcatt,

I was planning on getting the tick until the air conditioner went out at the house and the dog got heartworms. Decided to save some money and just get a stock master. Wasted my money with that from the looks of it.

Oh wow! Poor doggy with the heart worms.

Bench bleeding the master cylinder can sometimes do wonders.

.

welman transam · 10-21-2009, 06:21 PM

the proper way to get all the air out of the system is fill the reservoir all the way up, open the bleeder, let it drain down without the reservoir going dry for about 10 minutes. as long as it is draining at a good pace then close the bleeder and your done.

bearcatt · 10-21-2009, 06:27 PM

That is gravity bleeding.

.

rabiddog · 10-22-2009, 07:35 PM

From what I can tell the master is somehow bring in air when there is no pressure on it. Hopefully the problem will be solved when the tick m/c gets here. Thanks Joey for all the help. already have a pretty good cam but if the tick m/c and speed bleeder work perfect for me I might be in for a polluter.

Will let you know if the tick solves my problems when it gets here

SPEC-01 · 10-23-2009, 09:18 AM

There are so many ways to bleed hydraulics and lots of people that have had success with different methods. I talk to people regularly that feel like they have exhausted their efforts at bleeding the system, only to find that in the end they were able to get more air out and that everything works perfectly now. There really isn't a right or wrong way to doing this...but it helps to try different methods to insure that your efforts are making a difference. GM hydraulics for the win!

rabiddog · 11-05-2009, 06:04 PM

UPDATE: installed the tick mc. Solved the bleeding problem. Have good fluid no air coming out. Adjusted the tick to max and the clutch still won't disengage! I am completely stumped. I called the local tranny shop. "soundslike you shouldn't be having any problems" is what I was told. Before I tow my car to his shop he said he would swing by and take a look to save me some $. ANYONE HAVE A CLUE!!??

Sorry for rambling.