questions about spraying 400 and above set ups !
01-03-2009, 11:11 PM
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questions about spraying 400 and above set ups ! If one was to want to spray a total of 450-500 hp what would be the best way ?
Lets say we use a fast 92/92 and I already have foggers plumed in the intake.
Lets take all things in to consideration , fuel supply, NOS controllers etc...
I have already sprayed 300 on the hit with 1.31 60fts with no problem.
I have a built engine also. This is also using a powerglide.
If yo have sprayed big shots and know your **** I would like to hear what you have to say based on experience.
M thoughts at this point is to spray the 300 as I did and throw in another 100hp or more later. Just trying to see what you think and then I am going to look at cost versus my own turbo kit.
Lets say we use a fast 92/92 and I already have foggers plumed in the intake.
Lets take all things in to consideration , fuel supply, NOS controllers etc...
I have already sprayed 300 on the hit with 1.31 60fts with no problem.
I have a built engine also. This is also using a powerglide.
If yo have sprayed big shots and know your **** I would like to hear what you have to say based on experience.
M thoughts at this point is to spray the 300 as I did and throw in another 100hp or more later. Just trying to see what you think and then I am going to look at cost versus my own turbo kit.
01-04-2009, 10:18 AM
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What size & how many bottles do you plan to use?
Injector size?
Engine/compression size?
PCM - running in what mode/tune? Open or Closed Loop? MAF or SD?
Completely open exhaust?
If it was me I'd add the extra 150-200 as dry ahead of the TB like a normal dry system. I'd run this extra system with its own 20 lb bottle. I'd run a relatively small Jet in the nozzle (jetted for 100 to 150 HP) and run higher than normal pressure ( 1400 - 1700 PSI ) for its bottle. That will produce the most torque by increasing density before the intake runners.
With the big shot & powerglide it sounds like you are more of a track only car so NA power isn't a big concern. I'd handle the fuel enrichment in the PE table of the tune.
The piston acceleration is quite slow in high gear with a powerglide so I'd also keep the burn relatively slow to match by running a relatively rich AFR and low spark advance. I'd concentrate more on the spark advance since a reduction there is a better way to make power than to just increase the amount of excess fuel to slow the burn.
By "piston acceleration" I mean your RPM is increasing relatively slow compared to the increase in vehicle speed and the added load on the engine created by that speed. For this reason powerglide cars do not like an aggressive timing curve after the launch. The spark advance curve will need to be very flat and possibly even drop off a bit at the upper RPM or wherever you are at the big end of the track. You might try to drop a degree or two of spark advance for the last 500 feet of your run. It's too late to gain any E.T. but you might get a MPH or two if that's important to you. It's also a little bit of security if you're worried about detonation starting on the big end of the track.
Keep in mind that the more power you are getting from N2O the more the power curve of the engine generally shifts to the lower RPM. It is common for optimum shift points to move down 500 RPM or so with smaller nitrous shots than you are running. It is possible that you might find a performance gain by shifting a little sooner once you up your shot. Every combination is a little different, but it's worth testing to find out.
Are these the kind of ideas you were looking for?
I assumed since you were already running a large N2O system that you had most other bases covered.
I didn't talk about N2O controllers because I like to keep things simple and do not like to use them.
Injector size?
Engine/compression size?
PCM - running in what mode/tune? Open or Closed Loop? MAF or SD?
Completely open exhaust?
If it was me I'd add the extra 150-200 as dry ahead of the TB like a normal dry system. I'd run this extra system with its own 20 lb bottle. I'd run a relatively small Jet in the nozzle (jetted for 100 to 150 HP) and run higher than normal pressure ( 1400 - 1700 PSI ) for its bottle. That will produce the most torque by increasing density before the intake runners.
With the big shot & powerglide it sounds like you are more of a track only car so NA power isn't a big concern. I'd handle the fuel enrichment in the PE table of the tune.
The piston acceleration is quite slow in high gear with a powerglide so I'd also keep the burn relatively slow to match by running a relatively rich AFR and low spark advance. I'd concentrate more on the spark advance since a reduction there is a better way to make power than to just increase the amount of excess fuel to slow the burn.
By "piston acceleration" I mean your RPM is increasing relatively slow compared to the increase in vehicle speed and the added load on the engine created by that speed. For this reason powerglide cars do not like an aggressive timing curve after the launch. The spark advance curve will need to be very flat and possibly even drop off a bit at the upper RPM or wherever you are at the big end of the track. You might try to drop a degree or two of spark advance for the last 500 feet of your run. It's too late to gain any E.T. but you might get a MPH or two if that's important to you. It's also a little bit of security if you're worried about detonation starting on the big end of the track.
Keep in mind that the more power you are getting from N2O the more the power curve of the engine generally shifts to the lower RPM. It is common for optimum shift points to move down 500 RPM or so with smaller nitrous shots than you are running. It is possible that you might find a performance gain by shifting a little sooner once you up your shot. Every combination is a little different, but it's worth testing to find out.
Are these the kind of ideas you were looking for?
I assumed since you were already running a large N2O system that you had most other bases covered.
I didn't talk about N2O controllers because I like to keep things simple and do not like to use them.
Last edited by white2001s10; 01-04-2009 at 10:31 AM.
01-04-2009, 10:51 AM
#3
Personally I would sell the FAST 92 setup and get a single plane with an elbow or 4150style TB.
I would do a DP setup on the single plane and get a good plate kit to run with it. I would hit it with about 200-250 off the line with the plate kit and then bring in another 200 or so with the DP.
The reason I would switch to the single plane is because the stock style intakes don't really do too well with larger shots coming from the front (single nozzle, plate, etc.) and it would be very hard to keep the motor happy.
With a single plane you will get better distribution from the plate kit and it will be a lot easier to keep the motor happy (Tune up wise). The plate kits also hit harder than the DP's witch is the reason I would run it off the line instead of the DP.
I ran mine like this last season and it has been a lot easier to tune the car. I was running two nozzle kits on an LS6 intake, One wet, one dry. I like my current setup much better, It's a lot easier to get it dialed in and it looks cooler too LOL
I would do a DP setup on the single plane and get a good plate kit to run with it. I would hit it with about 200-250 off the line with the plate kit and then bring in another 200 or so with the DP.
The reason I would switch to the single plane is because the stock style intakes don't really do too well with larger shots coming from the front (single nozzle, plate, etc.) and it would be very hard to keep the motor happy.
With a single plane you will get better distribution from the plate kit and it will be a lot easier to keep the motor happy (Tune up wise). The plate kits also hit harder than the DP's witch is the reason I would run it off the line instead of the DP.
I ran mine like this last season and it has been a lot easier to tune the car. I was running two nozzle kits on an LS6 intake, One wet, one dry. I like my current setup much better, It's a lot easier to get it dialed in and it looks cooler too LOL
01-04-2009, 11:05 AM
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WWOW, great response. Let me be a little more complete with my set up and what I think I want to do. ......
The car : Its a very lightweight car at 2975 , it is only used for drag racing , while some quick drives to the store or what not.
I have a built 370 iron engine. I originally used the NOS kit that used the individual nozzles under each injector, this was good to a 300 shot. While I also knew the small diamter plastic lines where a limit. I first started with that kit on numerous stock engines . after I put the 370 in this car I decided to go a little bigger than the 200 I was spraying all the time. So I went to the 300 hit and decided to go from a stock LS6 intake to the FAST , when doing that the nozzles didnt fit under the injectors so I bought individual foggers and tapped them into the intake. I am still running the plastic lines to those fogger nozzles.
So now the car runs great and in 100 degree weather I went 9.37 I also sprayed this from the line foot braking with a 1.31 60 ft . The car was very stable and dint really blow the tires much . I feel it will take much more before it seems like a violent launch. The chassis will handle it and the engine will also(I think)LOL !!
So now that you know all of that I will give some details on the set up .
Stock fuel tank with Lonnies twin pumps, stock fuel lines and rails. 42lb injectors.
Engine is about 13-1 compression. Heads have really good valves for the NOS.
I am running a single 20lb bottle with -4 line feeding it.
Really all of this what I have is nothing big time. The things I have just work . I feel that I would need to run 2 20lb bottles with lines y'ed together and a -6 feeding it, run hard lines larger diameter on my nozzles and get rid of the plastic lines and get bigger NOS and Fuel sellinoids. Maybe a standalone fuel supply for the NOS.
But then my concern is spraying a larger hit than 300 at once and off the line.
Seems the 300 hit off the line is fine but any larger should be delayed in as I go down the track .
I am a point where it all works great and I dont have to spend a dime more to possibly run 9.10's (I wanted 8's)
The car is very reliable right now.
It depends on how much more all the better stuff will cost if I go that route or go back to a turbo.
YOUR info on the tunning is great, I will find that usefull.
The car : Its a very lightweight car at 2975 , it is only used for drag racing , while some quick drives to the store or what not.
I have a built 370 iron engine. I originally used the NOS kit that used the individual nozzles under each injector, this was good to a 300 shot. While I also knew the small diamter plastic lines where a limit. I first started with that kit on numerous stock engines . after I put the 370 in this car I decided to go a little bigger than the 200 I was spraying all the time. So I went to the 300 hit and decided to go from a stock LS6 intake to the FAST , when doing that the nozzles didnt fit under the injectors so I bought individual foggers and tapped them into the intake. I am still running the plastic lines to those fogger nozzles.
So now the car runs great and in 100 degree weather I went 9.37 I also sprayed this from the line foot braking with a 1.31 60 ft . The car was very stable and dint really blow the tires much . I feel it will take much more before it seems like a violent launch. The chassis will handle it and the engine will also(I think)LOL !!
So now that you know all of that I will give some details on the set up .
Stock fuel tank with Lonnies twin pumps, stock fuel lines and rails. 42lb injectors.
Engine is about 13-1 compression. Heads have really good valves for the NOS.
I am running a single 20lb bottle with -4 line feeding it.
Really all of this what I have is nothing big time. The things I have just work . I feel that I would need to run 2 20lb bottles with lines y'ed together and a -6 feeding it, run hard lines larger diameter on my nozzles and get rid of the plastic lines and get bigger NOS and Fuel sellinoids. Maybe a standalone fuel supply for the NOS.
But then my concern is spraying a larger hit than 300 at once and off the line.
Seems the 300 hit off the line is fine but any larger should be delayed in as I go down the track .
I am a point where it all works great and I dont have to spend a dime more to possibly run 9.10's (I wanted 8's)
The car is very reliable right now.
It depends on how much more all the better stuff will cost if I go that route or go back to a turbo.
YOUR info on the tunning is great, I will find that usefull.
01-04-2009, 11:09 AM
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Personally I would sell the FAST 92 setup and get a single plane with an elbow or 4150style TB.
I would do a DP setup on the single plane and get a good plate kit to run with it. I would hit it with about 200-250 off the line with the plate kit and then bring in another 200 or so with the DP.
The reason I would switch to the single plane is because the stock style intakes don't really do too well with larger shots coming from the front (single nozzle, plate, etc.) and it would be very hard to keep the motor happy.
With a single plane you will get better distribution from the plate kit and it will be a lot easier to keep the motor happy (Tune up wise). The plate kits also hit harder than the DP's witch is the reason I would run it off the line instead of the DP.
I ran mine like this last season and it has been a lot easier to tune the car. I was running two nozzle kits on an LS6 intake, One wet, one dry. I like my current setup much better, It's a lot easier to get it dialed in and it looks cooler too LOL
I would do a DP setup on the single plane and get a good plate kit to run with it. I would hit it with about 200-250 off the line with the plate kit and then bring in another 200 or so with the DP.
The reason I would switch to the single plane is because the stock style intakes don't really do too well with larger shots coming from the front (single nozzle, plate, etc.) and it would be very hard to keep the motor happy.
With a single plane you will get better distribution from the plate kit and it will be a lot easier to keep the motor happy (Tune up wise). The plate kits also hit harder than the DP's witch is the reason I would run it off the line instead of the DP.
I ran mine like this last season and it has been a lot easier to tune the car. I was running two nozzle kits on an LS6 intake, One wet, one dry. I like my current setup much better, It's a lot easier to get it dialed in and it looks cooler too LOL
I like this idea also. My main concern is the cost I will put into all of this to make it better or just go Turbo.
I have another engine and I can fab my own turbo stuff.
Another thing is I will probably sell this car at the end of 09 and go a different route.
Probably should leave it all alone and have fun....but you know we all cant leave things alone.
01-04-2009, 11:12 AM
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You may want to consider going to a NANO system at this point. I will make a big difference as far as bottle pressure goes. I've heard about a '55 Chevy that was running consistent 8.3x's and then added just a NANO system and dropped to 7.8x's with no other changes at all. You could probabl pick up a bit on your current system with just the NANO too.
01-04-2009, 06:09 PM
#7
An XXX shot of nitrous means different things to different people. I run a DP 400 shot (35N@950psi, 23F jetting@14psi). Your biggest challenge will be to keep the heads from lifting and pushing coolant. I recommend a dedicated fuel cell with some C16 in it and run it all wet. I use a controller but lots of people hate them. The NANO setup would be good also.
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01-04-2009, 07:52 PM
#9
I like this idea also. My main concern is the cost I will put into all of this to make it better or just go Turbo.
I have another engine and I can fab my own turbo stuff.
Another thing is I will probably sell this car at the end of 09 and go a different route.
Probably should leave it all alone and have fun....but you know we all cant leave things alone.
I have another engine and I can fab my own turbo stuff.
Another thing is I will probably sell this car at the end of 09 and go a different route.
Probably should leave it all alone and have fun....but you know we all cant leave things alone.
Just a thought.
01-04-2009, 08:36 PM
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I hit mine on a FAST 90 with a 90mm plate and 2 solenoid NX fogger with a 550 shot.
I think your question of "how" you do it is really subjective. Depends on your setup.
Of course you want to bring it in as much as possible and as fast as possible without blowing your tires off. I used a 200 shot (per NX jetting) and brought in 350 .3 seconds later. Next season I'll hit it with 600 if I have to, but with a super victor or some kind of carb intake.
I can vouch for ATV's intake. It's a good deal and proven.
I think your question of "how" you do it is really subjective. Depends on your setup.
Of course you want to bring it in as much as possible and as fast as possible without blowing your tires off. I used a 200 shot (per NX jetting) and brought in 350 .3 seconds later. Next season I'll hit it with 600 if I have to, but with a super victor or some kind of carb intake.
I can vouch for ATV's intake. It's a good deal and proven.
01-04-2009, 09:53 PM
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I really appreciate all your comments.
I did think of adding another plate kit behind the TB and leaving everything alone with what I have now. Seems that would pretty simple to add that and only do a 100-150 hit. Couldnt I use a timed delay then for after the launch ?
I completely understand there are way better things out there. I am just looking at spending the least amount or somewhat to get into the 8's
Seems the plate kit would be simple and I could use a separate fuel system for just that , or use a separate fuel system for the 300 hit and use the rail for the smaller hit.
I did think of adding another plate kit behind the TB and leaving everything alone with what I have now. Seems that would pretty simple to add that and only do a 100-150 hit. Couldnt I use a timed delay then for after the launch ?
I completely understand there are way better things out there. I am just looking at spending the least amount or somewhat to get into the 8's
Seems the plate kit would be simple and I could use a separate fuel system for just that , or use a separate fuel system for the 300 hit and use the rail for the smaller hit.
01-04-2009, 10:59 PM
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I thought you had a sheetmetal intake on ur car? How did the supervictor do on ur car? Just curious cuz I haven't seen any test results with it since it was released.
01-05-2009, 07:44 AM
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I run close to a 500 shot. I am only allowed 1 Stage. Use a couple of stages to make life easy.
We run 2 bottles with 2 #6 lines connected at the front of the car to equalize the pressure.
Controller is set to 100% when the clutch comes out. It's lean on the hit so I have a few ideas to try this year.
We are also going to go to Fuel Injecttion sometime this year.
Some very good advice in ths post.
Robin
We run 2 bottles with 2 #6 lines connected at the front of the car to equalize the pressure.
Controller is set to 100% when the clutch comes out. It's lean on the hit so I have a few ideas to try this year.
We are also going to go to Fuel Injecttion sometime this year.
Some very good advice in ths post.
Robin
01-05-2009, 09:19 AM
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I really appreciate all your comments.
I did think of adding another plate kit behind the TB and leaving everything alone with what I have now. Seems that would pretty simple to add that and only do a 100-150 hit. Couldnt I use a timed delay then for after the launch ?
I completely understand there are way better things out there. I am just looking at spending the least amount or somewhat to get into the 8's
Seems the plate kit would be simple and I could use a separate fuel system for just that , or use a separate fuel system for the 300 hit and use the rail for the smaller hit.
I did think of adding another plate kit behind the TB and leaving everything alone with what I have now. Seems that would pretty simple to add that and only do a 100-150 hit. Couldnt I use a timed delay then for after the launch ?
I completely understand there are way better things out there. I am just looking at spending the least amount or somewhat to get into the 8's
Seems the plate kit would be simple and I could use a separate fuel system for just that , or use a separate fuel system for the 300 hit and use the rail for the smaller hit.
The direct port is on a timer. My car liked being hit off the line with the plate, then having as much nitrous thrown at it as possible.
01-05-2009, 11:15 AM
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Sweet! Curious, how do you think the supervic compares to the gmpp, I'm running the gmpp cuz the supervic wasn't out at the time I was buying the intake and just wondering if I would pick anything up with a supervic over the gmpp.
