how much spray for 9s - Page 2

JL ws-6 · 10-21-2009, 02:06 PM

I made 460 rw thru a th400 and 12 bolt/slicks.. car went 10.5x n/a @ 3500 lbs.

100 shot with the same n/a gearing/converter put it to 9.9 to 10.0, 150 was about 9.80

Converter change put it to 9.50

With a stick car, it's going to come down to driver more then anything, even if the car works. It's not an easy task to drive a stick car to a 9 second pass, possible yes, easy no. And plan on eating alot of tranny/driveline parts trying to get there.

AChotrod · 10-21-2009, 05:47 PM

Cars got a Strange DS rated to 800hp and S60 with 35 spline axles, clutch is rated to 1200hp, the trans is the only part that worries me. Hell i all ready snapped the main shaft once. Im confident I could drive it.
Another thing is Larrys car has SI ported heads witha Killer LE cam in a 396 and makes about 40 more HP on motor then my little 355, but I have high hopes with a little more spray it can happen. Ill keep working down the NA numbers and see how low I can get it b4 I spray it.
Oh and in no way do I expect it to be easy.

JL ws-6 · 10-21-2009, 08:29 PM

I say give it a shot, set the car up with a fogger, and hit it with 250, if that doesn't get ya there, the car's not hooking hard enough, or something isn't working right.

It's either gonna run the #, or eat something... but you know how it goes, you go out swinging for the fence and connect it's going out of the park.

AChotrod · 10-21-2009, 08:35 PM

Im with ya!!! I bought this car less then 2 yrs ago bone stock with 27k on the clock. Since then everything has been swapped or modded with no plans to stop anytime soon!!! Im going for single digits no matter what. lol. I got all winter to build the right N20 set up and dial the suspension. Either I die tryin or the car goes down in flames.

JL ws-6 · 10-21-2009, 08:37 PM

Or ya buy my TH400 setup and just make life really easy LOL.

AChotrod · 10-21-2009, 09:46 PM

LOL! That would be to easy. Taner has inspired me, with his 8sec M6 LT1

robsquikz28 · 10-21-2009, 11:05 PM

225 shot probably with ur setup id say. The 200 might do it but the 225 will get you there a bit easier with the plate setup. Get the nitrous outlet plate and wack that badboy right out the whole with ur msd. Then drive like you never drove before, your car will look like taner out the gate,lol...hoooolllllddddd onnnnn
automatics love power adders much more then sticks, hence why I stick with a auto

AChotrod · 10-22-2009, 12:14 PM

Yeah I figure it would take 200-250 to do it. I should be ordering the Nitrous Outlet plate kit real real soon.

JL ws-6 · 10-22-2009, 12:18 PM

I'd really think twice about putting more then 200 thru a plate unless you are running a carb type intake. The distribution, IMO, is questionable at anything over 200 hp worth.

At least on an ls type intake, I don't know if the lt type is any better/worse, but I can't imagine it's much different.

If you stick with the plate route, definitely keep an eye on the plugs, pull every one after every pass for a while and see if there's any holes running any noticable amount different then the rest.

BADSZ28 · 10-22-2009, 01:30 PM

You have to look at the numbers. For a 6spd car, you need to trap about 140mph. You are at 119 with relatively high 60'. Once you hook, your trap is either going to go down or stay the same. So you are looking at picking up 21mph. That is a ton of power to gain to get there. The torque from the N2O will give you the 60' with proper traction and launch technique, but it will take at least 225 shot to get you to 140. What does the car weigh in at now? My guess is about 3300 with you in it with the mods you listed.

AChotrod · 10-22-2009, 02:39 PM

3415 with a 1/4 tank last year at the shootout. Since then I swapped to a road race UMI k-member so about the same with a bit more gas in the car.
You really think it needs to trap 140 to get in the 9s????

JL-ws6. The kit Im looking at is the best one out.
http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/catalog...roduct_id=2806
Introducing The Nitrous OUtlet 93-97 LT1 Specific Nitrous System.

After many hours of product design and prototyping we have designed the Nitrous System of the future. The Nitrous Outlet LT1 Specific Nitrous system is the safest, best fitting, and most tuner friendly system on the market. From newly designed solenoids to prefabricated stainless hard lines there is no other nitrous system on the market that can offer the same sexy look and reliable horse power.

Unlike other brand nitrous systems on the market the Nitrous Outlet system is truly a system designed to fit your application. Other companies use universal solenoid brackets and have sloppy looking braided hoses lying all over the top of the engine. The Nitrous Outlet system comes with application specific hardware so that you will not have to order special fittings or different length hoses for a custom looking install. In return you get the best fitment with out the universal sloppy look.

Our LT1 Specific System includes the following Features.

1. Newly designed high flowing solenoids built to work with today’s fuels.
2. The highest flowing, best atomizing and best fitting Nitrous Plate available!
3. Custom designed solenoid mounts.
4. Prefabricated Stainless Hard lines.
5. Precise fitment fittings.
6. CNC machined fuel feed with Prefabricated Hard line.
7. Bolts on using all factory equipment. (Including cold air box)
8. Wide range of accessories to work in conjunction with our nitrous system.
9. Capable of supporting Horse power levels up to 400 HP!

JL ws-6 · 10-22-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BADSZ28

You have to look at the numbers. For a 6spd car, you need to trap about 140mph. You are at 119 with relatively high 60'. Once you hook, your trap is either going to go down or stay the same. So you are looking at picking up 21mph. That is a ton of power to gain to get there. The torque from the N2O will give you the 60' with proper traction and launch technique, but it will take at least 225 shot to get you to 140. What does the car weigh in at now? My guess is about 3300 with you in it with the mods you listed.

There's some BS math here.

I've trapped 125 n/a, and have trapped 143 on the jug with only a single 63 jet, which is about 150 rwhp. I've also gone 9.6 # 139 mph too, so you don't have to trap 140 to go 9.9, you can go 9.9 at about 135 mph if your car leaves hard enough and you're driving is up to par.

140 mph will put you well into the 9.8 to 9.6 range, if you can trap that high you have plenty of power for yoru goal.

And the above kit, absolutely not if you may potentially need a 250 shot. You need a directport fogger, and need it done right the first time.

That plate is good for street cars that are running 50 to 125 worth of spray, I don't care if it will flow 400 hp, I would never trust that to distribute right.

Dave has some great products, but the one you're looking at isn't what you really need for your application. Give him a call and let him know what it is that you want to do, and ask the question when a fogger directport is a better route to be on (at what power level)

I guarintee, that regardless what nitrous guy you talk to they'er gonna tell you at about 200 to 250 hp worth.

Unless, you're runnning a carb type intake, in that case you can run a plate setup that's designed to go under eth carb or TB like a spacer, speedtech diffuser plate for example. Those, if you have a good one that is set up right (speedtech diffuser, NX plate, couple of the Nos plates are good too) will allow you to get into the higher power levels, but again, it will not have the cyl to cyl tuning ability that a DP has.

OutlawZ · 10-22-2009, 04:53 PM

Agreed on the stuff JL posted except one thing. He might NEED to go 140 mph to reach 9's cause it's a 6 speed manual.... Basing this off Taner's numbers he's always had higher trap speeds that others to reach similar ET's.... His 8.97 was at 155 mph whereas most of us that are TH400 equipped or glide equipped need about 151-152 to break into the 8's... So that's the only issue I see with the math being slightly correct... I think 140 is a good number to shoot for considering the time you lose while shifting. even if you shift fast i guarantee it's not as fast as my TH400 shifts....

Now onto the distro of the plate. If this is a LTx intake deal then BE VERY CAREFUL. You have to understand what the air does inside that manifold and consider that a very large shot is going to have crazy distribution. Whatever hole MOST of the nitrous/fuel went into could possibly run very lean. Since I doubt there is an individual cylinder timing deal on there in your setup your entire motor will have the same timing. And too much timing for whatever shot is what will kill the motor. The other 7 cylinders are gonna be chugging along so you probably won't know till you come back to the pits with a crazy missing engine and a hole in a piston.....

I run a plate and have put 325hp thru it but it's dry and it's on top of a carb style single plane manifold. Very good distribution cause the plate is DESIGNED to ensure even distribution even to the corner cylinders... I Intend to put 400hp thru the same plate. But even my plugs show some hot holes and some cooler holes.....

To answer your original question I think it'll take roughly a 200-250 shot to get you there assuming it's from your 11.6..... If you get that 11.6 like you said down to like 11.3 or 11.2 then of course i'll lower my nitrous estimate. My car ran similar to your car but it was TH400 equipped. Ran 11.7@118 on motor. Went 10.40@131 on a 150 shot with minimal suspension stuff and 5 year old slicks... To chop that other .4 I would have needed at least another 50-100 hp. And this is on a A3 so you'll need either a bit more gas or a lower gap to cover....

BADSZ28 · 10-22-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL ws-6

There's some BS math here.

I've trapped 125 n/a, and have trapped 143 on the jug with only a single 63 jet, which is about 150 rwhp. I've also gone 9.6 # 139 mph too, so you don't have to trap 140 to go 9.9, you can go 9.9 at about 135 mph if your car leaves hard enough and you're driving is up to par.

140 mph will put you well into the 9.8 to 9.6 range, if you can trap that high you have plenty of power for yoru goal.

Your an auto, you will trap lower than a 6 speed car. Typically you need 140mph to break 9s in a 6 speed. IDC about the jet size, only about the needed RWHP to get there. You are gaining 18mph on a car set-up for nitrous going from N/A to nitrous. Of course you are going to pick up more than expected. Put a 26" tire on your car N/A and see what it does, then put the big tires on with the 150 shot, then see your differences. I am betting it is closer to 15mph. Maybe less.

AChotrod · 10-22-2009, 04:59 PM

I wish, Dave or Ray would chime in here. Ive seen guys run 200 with this set up on bone stock bottom ends without any issues. Its also the same kit Larry at Speedinc is running and pretty sure hes shooting for 250hp or so with it.
A nice fogger set up would be very nice though.

OutlawZ · 10-22-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

wish, Dave or Ray would chime in here. Ive seen guys run 200 with this set up on bone stock bottom ends without any issues. Its also the same kit Larry at Speedinc is running and pretty sure hes shooting for 250hp or so with it.
A nice fogger set up would be very nice though

With low timing anything is possible but you're saying they are spraying 250hp worth of spray with stock bottom ends???? can't think it would live under those conditions for long... hyperutectic pistons DO NOT like that kinda stuff...

I'd hafta see what their plugs look like after a run and compare them hole to hole to see what kind of distribution he's getting with that manifold... air takes the path of least resistance... and in a manifold like that with a front feed it's hard to distribute liquid in suspension evenly....

Think about this for a sec. Ever seen a Hogans sheetmetal intake on a shiny big block or even a smallblock? Breadbox front feed intake that looks like this:

guarantee you'll hardly ever see someone putting a PLATE behind the throttle body on a setup like this.... cause you're forcing air/nitrous/fuel to turn 90 degrees before getting vacuumed into a cylilnder pipe... will it work for low volumes of nitrous? Yes probably... but for BIG shots an uneven mixture could be catasrophic...

AChotrod · 10-22-2009, 05:29 PM

Hmmm. Chased LTXshootout EX PA champ, is the guy running 200 on the stock short.
I better talk to the guys over at the N2oOutlet, b4 I buy anything, because when I do this I want to go single digits reasonably safe lol!
I might just buy some shocks and concentrate on lowering the cars 60ft NA, then build a kit over the winter.
I would still like to here what the guys at N2o think.

OutlawZ · 10-22-2009, 05:41 PM

definitely ask them...... I think they all make great products but remember they are in the business to sell things.... and the LT1 intake design flaw is that at very high levels of spray you won't get very good distribution between cylinders... at 100,150, even 200 it usually won't bite you.... at 250 on up it can become a factor...

the statement "can support power levels up to 400hp" just means that the solenoids can flow THAT much nitrous.....

doesn't say "will safely produce up to 400hp with an LTx manifold"....

AChotrod · 10-22-2009, 06:54 PM

Ill be giving them a call tomorrow morn! I really appreciate all the advice guys!

Racin96ss · 10-23-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AChotrod

Hmmm. Chased LTXshootout EX PA champ, is the guy running 200 on the stock short.
I better talk to the guys over at the N2oOutlet, b4 I buy anything, because when I do this I want to go single digits reasonably safe lol!
I might just buy some shocks and concentrate on lowering the cars 60ft NA, then build a kit over the winter.
I would still like to here what the guys at N2o think.

Mike,

Chased has forged pistons w/ARP bolts in his 355. It is not a stock bottom end. He would have blown that thing years ago without them. His motor is 1 or 2 years older than mine(which is now 8 I think).

I went a little further than him with 4-bolt mains and forged rods.

I think it will take more than a plate to get into the 9's. Maybe a stout SR/355with a nice 200 shot could make it but my guess is you'll need to be super light weight to make it with a 355.