Nail in the Firebird's Coffin (For the newcomers)

Formula350 · 05-24-2008, 08:02 PM

Most of us here know there won't be, but people still seem to ask it, even after we've told them countless times. So maybe we should sticky this info.

Quote:

Buick, Pontiac and GMC dealers will get 12 new or special-edition vehicles over the next 20 months — but they won't get a Pontiac Trans Am.

Quote:

But because of new legislation requiring vehicles to reach a fleet average of 35 mpg by 2020, Pontiac might not end up as GM's performance division, dealers said they were told.

Source: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...802120311/1203
Note: While the T/A is a Firebird, the Firebird isn't a T/A. Yet, I doubt GM would say no T/A but not imply the whole Firebird line. Just use common sense on these sort of things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quionM

1. Will the Firebird Return?

If you mean as a clone of the Camaro, nope.
A few people from GM have weighed in on this since the concept came out last January. Although the common thread is never say never, the thing that comes through is that IF GM used the Firebird name, it would be on a car very different from the Camaro.

Source: http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/show...3&postcount=13

All that was mentioned before the nail that was hammered by GM in the previous quote. (See post date: 08-16-2007)

Now onto what WILL be made...

Year One and Burt Reynolds have teamed up to make the Burt Reynolds' Edition: Trans AM (See also here to skip the Flash introduction) which will be based on a 1977 Trans AM SE and updated with newer features to make it modernized for this era (Read a bit about the design info here. You can see their site for all the specs and info on them.

Lastly: All the "concepts" you see around the web, and in this section are FAN made. None of them are made by any retailers or companies that plan to put anything into production. Any concept that is new to you, not to be a complete dick, has been posted here

That IS one of the downfalls of no cached pages in this section, you can't see the millions of reposts we've dealt with.

Hope this helps you Potential Poncho Newbs

Cheers!

Semper91-RS · 05-24-2008, 10:59 PM

You know what's funny, though, is that Chevrolet has confirmed that they will be releasing a second RWD Coupe based on the Camaro later in 2010.

Formula350 · 05-24-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper91-RS

You know what's funny, though, is that Chevrolet has confirmed that they will be releasing a second RWD Coupe based on the Camaro later in 2010.

I think that's for the GTO. I haven't seen any reports of it being dead, just being on hiatus. From what I remember, the GTO is slated for a 2010 return. Yet that does sound fishy since the GTO is a performance vehicle and people think V8 when it comes to that, and then GM saying Pontiac might not be a performance division due to the MPG issue. So a I4/V6 GTO is kind of weird sounding. Even a high HP Twin Turbo V6 (or single turbo) GTO is a bit hard to swallow. I'd love to see a GNX 3.8 Turbo based off the Camaro though!

CT15 · 05-25-2008, 09:14 AM

Yeah that would be awesome. Remember when that photoshopped pic of the "2007 GNX" was floating around? Pretty sexy. A turbocharged V6 would kick ass.

Formula350 · 05-25-2008, 12:52 PM

I had heard about the possibility of a GNX coming, but never saw any pics. I just googled quick and the ones that showed up were GTO based, but were still nice looking lol

I came across this too and WOW someone went through the work of making a Brochure for it O_O
http://www.dodgeforum.com/m_203882/tm.htm

idoitforv · 05-25-2008, 02:27 PM

If pontiac is not a performance division, what is up with the 2009 G8 GXP with 400hp LS3. Thats pretty much performance in my book. http://www.automedia.com/cs/blogs/au...ac-g8-gxp.aspx

Formula350 · 05-25-2008, 02:54 PM

It still is now, it's not the 'time' that GM was talking about for it possibly not continue on that path.

The Alchemist · 05-29-2008, 10:18 AM

As a Trans Am owner, I'm kindof glad they aren't planning on making them with the return of the camaro. It still keeps my car somewhat unique, at least in my mind.

JS · 05-29-2008, 03:54 PM

The TA is just sooooo sweet looking..
Its a shame they had to kill it but u are right,it does make yours more unique

GM cant afford to lose sales to a Firebird once the Camaro comes out..I dont think there gonna hit there target of 100K cars now that gas is going to 5.00 a gallon but they will probably sell 50K.....

DanWS6 · 05-29-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alchemist

As a Trans Am owner, I'm kindof glad they aren't planning on making them with the return of the camaro. It still keeps my car somewhat unique, at least in my mind.

Agreed

ads_99ta · 05-30-2008, 05:06 PM

i guess i don't understand why a lot you with 4th gen birds think that if another firebird comes out in the future your car will no longer be unique. your 4th gen bird will always be unique and just as beautiful as it was the day it rolled off the assembly line. just because there are no immediate plans for a new bird doesn't mean there never will be another. and if it ever does come back i'll be in line waiting on one.

ChocoTaco369 · 05-30-2008, 06:39 PM

I fail to see how this is proof that the Firebird will never come back. I don't know how you guys, the all-knowing internet forum people, can see the future. I'll pay well for you to teach me

I doubt I'll ever buy a Camaro.

1.) It's too late. GM dropped the ball as usual.
2.) Gas is too expensive.
3.) It's going to be extremely heavy for almost certain.
4.) It's really not that good looking at all.
5.) Fourth gens are much better looking and they will be cheaper, almost certainly lighter and almost certainly get better mileage, plus be much more track-worthy thanks to the SRA.

I think the new Camaro is going to be to the Fourth Gen's what the GT500 was to the Terminators. Everyone expected it to be better, but it just turned out to be a big fat pig that wasn't any faster or really any better.

The Firebird was great because it was so streamlined. It was the poor man's Corvette. The new Camaro resembles a Mustang more than an F-body, and I feel it's like a man with only one testicle without the Firebird.

ChocoTaco369 · 05-30-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alchemist

As a Trans Am owner, I'm kindof glad they aren't planning on making them with the return of the camaro. It still keeps my car somewhat unique, at least in my mind.

That's like saying Fox Body Mustang's aren't unique because the SN95's came afterwards. They're nothing alike. The 4th Gen Camaro looks nothing at all like this new one. All you're doing is wishing for the death of one of the greatest symbols in American history for nothing.

wannabess00 · 05-30-2008, 10:15 PM

[quote=ChocoTaco369;9463754]I fail to see how this is proof that the Firebird will never come back. I don't know how you guys, the all-knowing internet forum people, can see the future. I'll pay well for you to teach me

QUOTE]

agreed. I was unaware that we had a group of GM and Pontiac Execs. on this site carring the conversation. Let us not forget history such as Dodges decision in 1965 to not go after the pony car market for the 66' model year. Plymouth chose to enter it with the Baracuda and Dodge chose to go with the Charger(like Pontiac with the G8 Aussi Cars). When the Pony Car market proved quite profitable Dodge made the Challenger. While some could argue that it was a different time the metality of being a money making business will obviously never change. Should it prove profitable they most likely will make a FireBird as well as a T/A.

Formula350 · 05-31-2008, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ads_99ta

i guess i don't understand why a lot you with 4th gen birds think that if another firebird comes out in the future your car will no longer be unique. your 4th gen bird will always be unique and just as beautiful as it was the day it rolled off the assembly line. just because there are no immediate plans for a new bird doesn't mean there never will be another. and if it ever does come back i'll be in line waiting on one.

+1. I said it a few times before, but just didn't bother doing it again.

And two the other two: I didn't say it, I quoted it. So while I'm not a high-up GM worker (or one in general), the people who I quoted are. So by all means, don't take my (unsaid) word for it.

wannabess00 · 05-31-2008, 04:52 AM

Ive heard all the quotes that youve heard. Im a Camaro fan now that Oldsmobile is gone. And believe me Id never be so nuts as to think I will get to own a new Olds 442 but the corporate mentality will always over rule any quotes and press releases. If the Camaro proves to be a money maker you can bet that Pontiac execs will be holding meetings to see how much they can make from this and most likely a concept will appear to see what public reaction is to it especially is Chysler execs ok the Cuda concept that their design team has been screaming about for a year now

The Alchemist · 05-31-2008, 07:58 AM

First off, I never made any claims. Second, I stated what my feelings were, simple as that. I feel (emotion, not fact) that by not having another Firebird made, it makes the last made more unique.

I think that when they release the camaro in 2010, it sort of makes the 4th gen camaro's outdated, but with no new Firebird, it's still somewhat unique, IN MY MIND. I'd be torn if they released a new firebird becaues I don't want to get rid of my t/a, but I'd be drawn to buying a new one as well.

Look at the fact that firebirds got a 'Last of the breed' designation. Most likely there won't be another Firebird, but it's merely speculation. The Firebirds were always more unique than the camaro's because there were less made and sold almost every year except for during the late 70's when the Smokey and the Bandit craze happened.

Look at first gen's. Everyone and their cousin wants a 69 camaro. Not me, I want a 69 Firebird that I would drop a modern drivetrain in and clone it up to be a Trans Am (I wouldn't want to hack up a real 69 Trans Am) and then paint it to match my 2000.

As for the poor man's corvette, I disagree somewhat. I know it's less money, but when I was buying my car back in 2000, I considered buying a vette but didn't like the looks compared to the Trans Am. Still to this day, I've parked next to vettes at the dealership considering buying a vette and still prefer the muscular looks of the Trans Am over the vette. Don't get me wrong, the vettes look badass and with the right mods can be down right sexy, but it just doesn't look like a muscular car, they are more sexy than muscular.

NOW FOR THE DISCLAILMER: All of the previously posted oppinions are those of the author and do not imply nor state facts associated with General Motors. The author is not associated, nor does he have any official ties with General Motors. User discretion is advised.

The Alchemist · 05-31-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369

That's like saying Fox Body Mustang's aren't unique because the SN95's came afterwards. They're nothing alike. The 4th Gen Camaro looks nothing at all like this new one. All you're doing is wishing for the death of one of the greatest symbols in American history for nothing.

I'll take your mustang argument and expand on it. What if there were no mustangs after the Fox Body? They would definitely have more of a uniqueness to them than they currently have.

And I'm not wishing for the death of the greatest symbols in American history, the general population and GM did that.

Formula350 · 05-31-2008, 12:23 PM

Except any car is unique. A great example that is related to yours, is the Grand National. If they brought it back, it would be a KILLER car, but at the same time it's not going to ruin the 80s uniqueness OR rarity. THAT one is still that last of it's breed, as is yours will ALWAYS be the last of that breed of Firebird.

Then there's always technicalities. Breed means (not that you didn't know) "to create offspring". Where I'm going with this is: If two Type A horses had offspring for 4 years (generations, to relate to the Bird), it would be a specific breed. But if offspring of Type A, bred with offspring of Type B, you would now have a new breed. Breed A is now a changed breed. There are similarities between A and the new AB, but AB is pretty damn different now.

To sum it up, your car will always be just as unique as it was yesterday, and still the last of the breed, if a new Firebird was released tomorrow.

wannabess00 · 05-31-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Alchemist

I'll take your mustang argument and expand on it. What if there were no mustangs after the Fox Body? They would definitely have more of a uniqueness to them than they currently have.

And I'm not wishing for the death of the greatest symbols in American history, the general population and GM did that.

By your logic I could argue that the 1970-72 GTOs and Judges lost their uniqueness because they made a 73 and 74 GTO when in fact most people dont even know they made GTOs in 73 and 74 and no GTO ever lost its uniqueness for that matter any of them and their differences such as the 3rd and 4th gen birds if they make a 5th gen.