hello just curious how a 4th gen modded with say shocks, springs, sway bars, adj. ta + panhard bar, LCAs and subframe connectors would compare in handling to a stock 5th gen.
and I know it doesnt mean much, but what would be an estimate of say skidpad/slalom specs for a 4th gen like that?
Modded vs stock is a bad comparison, the 5th gen doesn't stand a chance. Heres some numbers for a tuner LT1 Camaro: http://www.stangbangers.com/TrainedA...ns_Article.htm
And I would think its safe to assume that the numbers would only get better with the more modern modifications we have today (like a koni/strano setup with even better tires)
I too think the 4th gen in that scenario would be far superior. It's only hampered by the weight and the 5th gen is even heavier. Our 4th gens can handle very well when set up properly. Besides that, the factory does not set the cars up for ultimate handling but compromises for comfort so it really is an unfair comparison.
With a fairly well setup suspension, my '93 Z28, with a bone-stock LT1 (with headers) is on par or faster than a C5 Corvette on the road course. The MAIN difference? My car has had a few HUNDRED pounds of excess weight removed, and weighed in (with a full 20-gallon fuel cell) at 3038 lbs (lighter even than the C5).
At ~3860 lbs, the 5th-gen Camaro doesn't stand a chance. It would need A LOT of weight stripped out before it would become a contender. Even stock-for-stock, I'd give the nod to the 4th-gen car ... especially an LS1, with the additional power they have.
... FWIW, my '02 Z28, with Strano/Koni suspension, is also on par with a C5 Corvette . There is no way that a 5th-gen Camaro can keep up with a C5 ... certainly not in stock form.
I've never seen a published time for a 4th-gen Camaro, however, it seems that it's been more in recent years that the 'Ring has become the new benchmark for comparing the handling/performance of cars. IMO, the only place on that track where the 5th-gen may out-perform the 4th-gen is on the ~2 mile straightaway, where it might pull more top end speed. Otherwise, the 4th-gen would have it. Again, we are referring to a MODDED 4th-gen, correct? Stock-for-stock would be a very interesting comparison. Also, the difference between LT1 and LS1 would come into play too. And whether it was a factory Z28 or SS.
The new one did the ring in like 8:20 didnt it? Was a 4th gen ever there?
That doesn't say much for the cars handling in my eyes considering the turbo Cobalt SS's did it in 8:22.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChucksZ06
You guys are right on with the weight thing. The new one does have IRS though.
IRS to me has always been more for ride quality than all out handling. The only place where it really pulls ahead in the handling aspect is on very uneven road surfaces.
The 2010 mustang GT is a good example of what a well tuned live rear is capable of .95G's and slalom speeds just a hair under 70.
A well setup 4th gen even at full weight will easily exceed the stock numbers of the 2010’s. In the end I always think it comes down weight you only have a few small patches of rubber contacting the ground and they can only take so much weight before breaking free.
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Yeah the IRS is for ride quality. You can really get a lot of negative camber in a straight axle. Those indy cars run irs cause a ford 9 inch is too heavy right? BTW new mustangs are pigs on road courses because of wt.
Yeah the IRS is for ride quality. You can really get a lot of negative camber in a straight axle. Those indy cars run irs cause a ford 9 inch is too heavy right? BTW new mustangs are pigs on road courses because of wt.
I was referring to everyday street driven cars here so that would not include indy cars and cars that wear their tires out in 1,000 miles because they are running crazy camber angles. Obviously IRS’s in the end are better when it comes to handling, they can move the wheels in ways that are just not possible with a live rear (the penalty is weight and more moving parts). I maintain that IRS is employed in a majority of the cars you see on the street for ride quality not handling. However, a well setup straight axel car can perform at levels nearing that of a similar IRS car and anyone that’s been to a track can’t deny that.
I gave the 2010 mustang as an example since with its straight axel (factory track package equipped) it has in many tests out handled the 5th gen with its IRS and in fact its numbers near that of the 370Z. Oh course the GT’s are pigs on a road course most stock cars are, from your name I take it you drive a Z06 so you sure as hell should be embarrassing them on the track along with a good many other cars.
Either way I think we both agree that a 4th gen with modded suspension will easily out handle a stock 5th gen and most likely because of weight even a modded 5th.
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"It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them"
I agree ^ ^. The Mustang is a good example, again, proving that less weight is an advantage. If it can rival the new Camaro (which has IRS and more HP) then why is that?? Less weight.
If the tracks are smooth in the corners the well set up straight axle cars do very well as you say. Rough areas in corners are very common though and one little bumb upsets the straight axle much more than a IRS. I did track days with an 03 cobra and it cornered significantly better than the straight mustangs. The right setup and tires can offset the weight up to a certain point. Those little kit cars with 6 inch tires and 1800 lb weight with 4 cylinder 120 hp engines embarrase track ready vettes (read me) and vipers all the time. The ride quality you mention for street cars is also very valid point.
Last edited by ChucksZ06; 08-11-2009 at 10:00 AM..
Reason: sp
Anybody who says a 2010 stang won't handle has never driven one. That is the best hanlding stock live rear I have ever driven. Had the Trak Pak. I didn't get to drive it enough to see if it was overall better than my setup but it did seem more stable on a bumpy road on my first impression. And I only give kudos to fords grudgingly......
__________________ Just an average LS1
Strano springs and sways, Koni 4/4's, UMI PHB .
417rwhp/383tq
12.02/113 on heavy 17/9.5 ZR1 OEM Concepts + MT/DR's
This might be the first time ever the Camaro under-performs and the Mustang actually performs!!
For the longest time, the Mustang just hasn't measured up ... it's always been a couple steps behind (with the exception of the '03/'04 Cobra). At least the current model has stuck close to the ~3500 lb weight category, and it's actually making OVER 300 HP now. Sounds almost like a 4th-gen Camaro?
modded 4th gen vs 5th gen handling. 
. There is no way that a 5th-gen Camaro can keep up with a C5 ... certainly not in stock form.
Stock-for-stock would be a very interesting comparison. Also, the difference between LT1 and LS1 would come into play too. And whether it was a factory Z28 or SS.
