Dumb Question That Needs Answered

[Turnin20s]

How do the F-bodies stack up against newer civics on the course or auto x? The only reason that I ask is a guy that I work with has an '08 civic SI with eibach springs, AEM CAI, and a Skunk2 catback and he says that no matter what I do to my car I won't be able to out handle him in the twisties. I am planning strano/konis with strano sway bars, UMI tubular k member, adjustable panhard bar, and a few more things like a cage and a little weight reductions. I personally think that my car would own his car in the twsties right now with stock struts and springs with 120K miles on them. My car is also putting down 400+rwhp so I have plenty of power to pull me in the straights and out of turns even though I may be a little slower in the corners right now. I have driven his car without the eibach springs and wasn't all that impressed, there was alot of tire squeal and it wants to plow the front if you push it pretty hard.

And to add to his intelligence he keeps telling me that he has a friend that laughed at me when he told him that I was seting my car up for road racing, because they are "usless handling cars"

Is he right or just plain stupid? Sorry for the usless post but this guy is bugging me. My car is close to running but I still have a few bugs to work out, otherwise I wouldn't even post. I'd just go find out for myself

[AronZ28]

You'd be able to keep up with him with a decent set of tires, even 120k on the stock suspension.

[Killer_Bluebird]

Invite him to a open track day at a local road course then ask him that if he can keep up in ten laps then you will reimburse his entrance fee. If he can't you can spray paint I'm gay on the hood of the car.

[EchoMirage]

i autox with alot of rice. im going to one this afternoon as a matter of fact. unless you strip them down, slap on alot of susp. work, and make it a race car, theyre garbage. stock for stock, they handle alright, since theyre better suited for small, tight autoxs. if there are any straights of any length, our power will more then make up for losting a little in the tight turns. with all the work youre planning on doing, your car will be more of a race car then road, and will stomp the shit out of the honduh.

PROVIDED other things are equal like you and he are both 100% equal drivers. you can have a full blown race car, and he have a bone stock grocery getter, yet if he can drive and you cant, you can guess at the outcome.

[dailydriver]

^^^^

Yes Turnin20s, your friend has that mindless, brainwashed import/ricer mindset/dogma that states, "ONLY imports can turn left and right at speed, NO domestics can match this, for they are only allowed to go fast in a straight line".
Now of course this is reinforced by the throngs (especially on this site) who really DO just use f bodies for drag/highway races with; skinnies/drag slicks, NO front swaybar, drag launch type shocks/springs, killer rear swaybar, poly bushings, drag race brakes, etc., etc.
But that's OK, because it smacks the rice right out of their feeble little brains when the importees come face to face with a properly prepped for road racing/auto-x f body (with a competent driver, of course )!!

As stated, the ONLY place they have a given advantage (again with EQUALLY skilled drivers) is on UBER tight/short autocross courses that make go kart tracks seem like super speedways!!! (Where shorter wheelbases with NO overhang will always shine.)

[roy]

There ain't no way a fbody is going to beat a Honda.
This video proves it. This Fbody has no stickers , no huge azz wing nor coffee can exhaust to exerbate a more muscular sound. So there was no way it could win.

note: No aisan built cars were harmed in the making of this video.

[EchoMirage]

dead link roy

[jhelms]

Originally Posted by Killer_Bluebird

Invite him to a open track day at a local road course then ask him that if he can keep up in ten laps then you will reimburse his entrance fee. If he can't you can spray paint I'm gay on the hood of the car.

Agree!

[roy]

Originally Posted by EchoMirage

dead link roy

Fixed , My dumazz can't copy a link

[bad2dbone]

i think u will embarrass that lil rice burner



ANOTHER WAY THAT ACTUALLY PROVES IT ON PINK THE DOMESTIC VS IMPORTS



DOMESTIC EMBARASS IT BAD

[Sketchy Yeti]

Reality: Civic + Tires + Alignment = Game over


bad2dbone, simply put, you're an idiot.

[roy]

Originally Posted by Sketchy Yeti

Reality: Civic + Tires + Alignment = Game over


bad2dbone, simply put, you're an idiot.

Sketchy my friend, who is it game over for? The 4th gen Fbody is a pretty capable car.

Reason I ask, cause if I build a course for miatas and s2000 , yeah the smaller car has a slight advantage. If I build a course for both small cars and larger cars combined the Fbody's and vettes pretty much dominate on raw times. We give a pretty good handicapp index to the fast and furious crowd just to keep it competitive and have people coming back.

Btw here is a pretty good example of what game over looks like from my perspective. As you see there always can be somebody faster. but that is fewand far between .
Game over from a Fbody perspective.

[Sketchy Yeti]

Originally Posted by roy

Sketchy my friend, who is it game over for? The 4th gen Fbody is a pretty capable car.

Reason I ask, cause if I build a course for miatas and s2000 , yeah the smaller car has a slight advantage. If I build a course for both small cars and larger cars combined the Fbody's and vettes pretty much dominate on raw times. We give a pretty good handicapp index to the fast and furious crowd just to keep it competitive and have people coming back.

Btw here is a pretty good example of what game over looks like from my perspective. As you see there always can be somebody faster. but that is fewand far between .
Game over from a Fbody perspective.

I'm not questioning the ability of the 4th gen, I own one, and love it to death. On the other hand, I own an 05 rsx-s, which is out handled by an Si. ( lsd for the si ) Comparing an F-body with stock suspension,with 120,000 miles on it to a civic si with modified suspension in an autocross situation is absurd in my mind.

Horsepower isn't going to play too much of a factor in an autocross situation. The Si is far from underpowered.

I appreciate the vid from hockenheim Roy, I just don't see how it ties in with autocross? I also enjoyed the video you posted earlier. Although that is a pretty "open" course set out to favour bigger cars. Most of the events I have seen were alot tighter.

[198esp]

all driver dependent auto x is 80% driver 10% car 10% tires take a look at results at scca national events

[Turnin20s]

Well the more that I look into it I can't really seem to find any autoxs in my area but there are some open track days that the SI and my Z are going to. My suspension is only stock for now. I'll be ordering strano springs in the next 3 weeks or so then the konis there after, then I'll be getting strano sway bars after that too. I should have said that he plans on trying to street race me on twisty backroads in my area. I have driven his car and to be honest there is alot of room left for improvement. The car lacks power IMHO, but then again I'm used to driving something with power and his making ~185 to the wheels does not pull the car out of the corners. I'd say that my car handles just as good as his car from my point of view. I know my car needs improvement also but mine needs the suspension which is all of the fun stuff IMO. If we were to race on a really tight section I know that his car would probably beat me since mine is a handful right now with the suspension setup and street tires.

Thanks alot for all of the replies and sorry if I didn't make any sense I'm rambling and pretty tired LOL But in your guys opinion what are the first suspension mods to make to my car? Let me know in what order would be the best route to go.

Thanks again

[Sketchy Yeti]

Originally Posted by Turnin20s

Well the more that I look into it I can't really seem to find any autoxs in my area but there are some open track days that the SI and my Z are going to. My suspension is only stock for now. I'll be ordering strano springs in the next 3 weeks or so then the konis there after, then I'll be getting strano sway bars after that too. I should have said that he plans on trying to street race me on twisty backroads in my area. I have driven his car and to be honest there is alot of room left for improvement. The car lacks power IMHO, but then again I'm used to driving something with power and his making ~185 to the wheels does not pull the car out of the corners. I'd say that my car handles just as good as his car from my point of view. I know my car needs improvement also but mine needs the suspension which is all of the fun stuff IMO. If we were to race on a really tight section I know that his car would probably beat me since mine is a handful right now with the suspension setup and street tires.

Thanks alot for all of the replies and sorry if I didn't make any sense I'm rambling and pretty tired LOL But in your guys opinion what are the first suspension mods to make to my car? Let me know in what order would be the best route to go.

Thanks again

Tires should be the first thing you get. Then some good pads/fluid. Springs/shocks and a good alignment next.

I know what you mean about the power, my rsx has the same engine. After driving my camaro, I would constantly hit the limiter at 8700 waiting for something. Torque is a sensation that your missing with that car too, and in my mind are deceived by the torque difference in engines. I went 14.6@96.9mph with a cone filter on the stock intake, so it has some balls.

[Turnin20s]

Originally Posted by Sketchy Yeti

Tires should be the first thing you get. Then some good pads/fluid. Springs/shocks and a good alignment next.

I know what you mean about the power, my rsx has the same engine. After driving my camaro, I would constantly hit the limiter at 8700 waiting for something. Torque is a sensation that your missing with that car too, and in my mind are deceived by the torque difference in engines. I went 14.6@96.9mph with a cone filter on the stock intake, so it has some balls.

Oh for sure, its a fun little car to drive but I personally wouldn't get one no offense there.

I would get tires, but my car is still a nice day driver. But I'm trying to show people around here that theres more than drag cars and out closest drag track is 3 hours away and no one can drive their car that far anymore. I'm going to get tires, but I have to get another set of wheels first that way I don't drive the street with road slicks on there even though it may be fun sometimes I know tires will make everything but I only plan on going racing a few times a year, probably 2 or 3 but all of the roads up here are really nice and curvey so I can use the suspension alot. What brake pads do you suggest? I'm swapping to LS1 brakes here in the next few months too so I have some better stopping power, also what brake fluid? Right now I'm stock suspension with heater hose mod and a Spohn tunnel mounted torque arm, UMI tubular LCAs and PHB <-non adjustable

Heres my list basically in this order....
strano springs
Adjustable PHB
ls1 brakes
konis
UMI k member with tubular upper and lower arms
wheels and race tires
cage and a little diet
???????????

What important things am I forgetting?

[AronZ28]

I wouldn't mess with the brakes unless they are worn out. I say use them up, then upgrade. Same thing goes with the tires(unless they are really crappy $50 no name tires). I really like my bf goodrich KDW's, they're an awesome street tire. Great grip from a dig and in the turns, and they're great in the rain.

I'd put koni's first on your list. This made a night and day difference on my car.

[Sketchy Yeti]

Just get a good set of street tires. KDW's are pretty good, I run Falken Azenis RT-615's on my acura, and really really like them. No need to get fancy with the brakes, some hawk pads will help.

The reason i say tires first: Everything is useless without a good set of tires. You can have the best brakes and the best suspension, but if you cant grip the ground, good luck.

MY list would be this:
Good street tires on the wheels you have now
LS1 brakes with hawk pads all around.
Strano springs
Koni's
UMI adj. phb
Good alignment.
Scrap the k-member, way better ways to spend money for now.

You will have an entirely different car after those mods.

[roy]

Originally Posted by Sketchy Yeti

I appreciate the vid from hockenheim Roy, I just don't see how it ties in with autocross? I also enjoyed the video you posted earlier. Although that is a pretty "open" course set out to favour bigger cars. Most of the events I have seen were alot tighter.

Turnin20s did say something about twisties. I was just adding to it.
If I was starting over with any car
My list in order
suspension checked
Sticky tires
autocross alignment
and lots of serious seat time with a knowledgeable instructor.