A good choice for a Track/Racecar?

[C6-R Jr.]

I currently have a 2006 ZO6. I try to track it as much as possible. Me being a working guy and not weathy, I'm considering making a more affordable car. I also want to start doing some wheel to wheel racing and the Z would be to much $$$ and unrealistic for me to race.

I'm going to get a track/racecar soon and have narrowed it down a 04 CTS-V or a 01 to 04 ZO6. I'm leaning more toward the V. I have always liked it and it's bigger. To carry thing to the track. Tires, carjack, and tools. You can cram that stuff into the back seat, front seat and trunk. I am only interested in ones without sunroofs. The car will be set up with a SCCA T2 spec rollcage. I'm also thinking that T2 would be a better place to start racing than the T1 class.

There are a few prepped cars for sell out there, running around 29,000 to 35,000. They are all set up with oil coolers and heavyduty radiator and have suspension upgrades.

Then there is this 04 at a dealership near by that has a V with no roof and has 43,000 miles on it. They are asking 25,000 but I've seen them as low as 22,000 dollars. Starting out with a freah car you know that it hasn't been tossed around like a racecar, but your going to pay more to build the car.


Here's a picture of the 04.



These pictures are of the V all prepped out for the SCCA T2 and Grand Am GS class.













Deleted the fog and daytime running lights and made brake ducts to cool the front brakes.



I really like the V alot. What do you think?





Jr.

[C6-R Jr.]

A few more pictures





I don't know who the driver is, but that V looks chunky with the wheel flares and wider wheels.:thumbsup:







Jr

[dailydriver]

What are those ZR1/SS style wheels some of them (specifically the last pic) are running??
They look like Compomotives, are they???

[C6-R Jr.]

Originally Posted by dailydriver

What are those ZR1/SS style wheels some of them (specifically the last pic) are running??
They look like Compomotives, are they???

I don't know who makes them, I really like them. They look really good on that car and they've always looked good on the C4 ZR 1. I called a guy a few years ago who was selling a race prepped V and he said the wheels were made of Magnesium and they were 1500 dollars a piece. I think I'm going to go with CCW's




Jr.

[STRIPSTAR]

the c5z is lot lighter though those Ctsv look great. Buy the prepped one used if you have budget concerns.

[LS168Camaro]

You didn't really ask any questions but I am assuming you are looking for some advice as to which route to go? I don't know the allowed mods and what it costs to get one competitive so just weigh that against what building one would cost.
Though I have some questions. Who have you done track days with? Have you attended any SCCA or NASA race weekends?
I can certainly understand wanting to have a more affordable track car and go wheel to wheel. Though a $30k plus racecar isn't exactly low budget racing. I would really study up on the SCCA and T2. Its my understanding that in T2 cars have a determined lifespan so make sure that you can race your car for several years. Also, can't you run a custom blueprinted motor built by Katech that will make more power than stock yet costs 12,500?
I would also suggest a truck and trailer to tow the car to the races.
If budgets are a concern I would look into NASA's Camaro Mustang Challenge. I race with them in an ex T2 2002 Camaro. Cars can be bought from 8-15k. There also isn't a real opportunity to outspend anyone. We have set rear wheel dyno numbers that we must stay under as well as a set amount of allowable mods.
Let me know if you have any questions.
But those CTSV's look cooler than my Camaro.

[AU N EGL]

Very Very Cool

[trj20]

I know there is a strong NASA presence here and know what the AS class has been in the past. However AS is being revamped extensively.

Carbed 305 chevys and carbed 302 fords only in the past.

That is changing.

Theres more to it than this but in a nutshell...

The currently classed T2 Cadillac CTSV will be legal to race in AS. (No the newer supercharged v's won't be allowed) No forced induction cars in AS.

You will be allowed to gut the interior (If you wish), which is not legal in T2. You will still be carrying the t2 weight but can put the weight where you want it.



Current T2 legal LS1 f-bodies will be legal for AS but with a different weight specified for T2 depending on if it was an ls1 or lt1 engine. AGAIN YOU WILL BE ALLOWED TO RUN YOUR STOCK FUEL INJECTION and you can gut the interior as well. (If you wish)

Also. The currently classed Pontiac GTO will be classed in AS.

The class is wanting to grow and allowing the newer v8/rear drive cars that have a expiration date in the touring class now have a forever home in American Sedan without massive changes to make them legal. To be clear not all t2 cars are allowed in AS. Just the v8/rear drive cadillacs, camaro/firebirds, and GTO

There will be some alternate brake/wheel combinations that you will have to choose from. If you run a 16x8 inch wheel you may use any racing caliper with 4 pistons and single brake line with a 12.2 inch rotor max size. If you wish to use the stock 17 inch wheels then you must stay with the brake components that came stock and legal for t2.

There is more information coming down the pipe for these changes.

Another bit of information. SCCA's national championships currently in Topeka, will be moving to Road America in 09.

Another bit. NASA comp licenses will be recognized by the SCCA to compete in SCCA races. You will be required to join SCCA but thats also the case for SCCA racers to race in NASA.

Main sources for more information are at www.scca.com.

And the majority of AS racers hang out at www.asedan.net A wealth of information and questions can be answered there.


P.S. I posted incorrectly. These cars are legal to race in AS right now. You don't have to wait to 09 if you don't want to.

[HiTechEvan]

Hello,

The 98 car and the 73 car are still in T2 configuration. The latter #73 is owned by a GM engineer and is a bit further developed than the 98 car. Both of those cars, however were built by Phoenix Performance, Inc. The red Sandridge car as well. The 98 car has been run very little over it's life which is a plus. But then the 73 car is set up nicely and has lots of wins. Tough choice. I haven't seen the red car since the 04 runoffs and be careful as there were two - one was flipped and damaged badly in that race.

The other two cars are Grand Am spec and will require too much work to get them T2 legal.

Also consider the CTSV's will eat race gas and go through tires like you can't believe, mainly because they are classed at minimun weight of close to 3900 lbs.

I happen to own and drive and and am currently developing the first T2 crossover LS-1 powered 2001 Formula Firebird in American Sedan with Phoenix Perf. help. Phoenix has a nice T2 firebird identical to mine for sale which can be moved to AS as well. You might as well capitalize on me doing the development for you which should be sorted out by mid August.

Some misconceptions on LS-1 AS cars. You can run 4 piston calipers, but not with ABS. You can gut the car. You can lower the car. You can Change much of the suspension but must use the stock UCA's and LCA's. You can use any bushing/heim joint in those UCA's LCA's, however.
You could buy a nice T2 fbody and do the changes and be under 30k total. Best of all it sounds like a real racecar and will be a bit faster than T2.

[Robert@SPEEDSOUTH]

I love both cars, but for a budget track car the Vette is the best choice. The difference in weight means less wear on all of your consumables and replacement parts are much cheaper and very avail. used as well because of the market extending from 97-04. The real steal right now are the 99-00 FRCs. With prices ranging from $12500-$19000 for clean carfax nice cars the deals on these are tough to ignore.

[LS168Camaro]

Interesting info on A Sedan.
Are there any legal improvements allowed for power with the LS1? Do people use custom motors from places like Katech? Any idea what the average rear wheel hp/tq numbers for AS cars are?

[mitchntx]

Originally Posted by trj20

I know there is a strong NASA presence here and know what the AS class has been in the past. However AS is being revamped extensively.

Carbed 305 chevys and carbed 302 fords only in the past.

That is changing.

Theres more to it than this but in a nutshell...

The currently classed T2 Cadillac CTSV will be legal to race in AS. (No the newer supercharged v's won't be allowed) No forced induction cars in AS.

You will be allowed to gut the interior (If you wish), which is not legal in T2. You will still be carrying the t2 weight but can put the weight where you want it.



Current T2 legal LS1 f-bodies will be legal for AS but with a different weight specified for T2 depending on if it was an ls1 or lt1 engine. AGAIN YOU WILL BE ALLOWED TO RUN YOUR STOCK FUEL INJECTION and you can gut the interior as well. (If you wish)

Also. The currently classed Pontiac GTO will be classed in AS.

The class is wanting to grow and allowing the newer v8/rear drive cars that have a expiration date in the touring class now have a forever home in American Sedan without massive changes to make them legal. To be clear not all t2 cars are allowed in AS. Just the v8/rear drive cadillacs, camaro/firebirds, and GTO

There will be some alternate brake/wheel combinations that you will have to choose from. If you run a 16x8 inch wheel you may use any racing caliper with 4 pistons and single brake line with a 12.2 inch rotor max size. If you wish to use the stock 17 inch wheels then you must stay with the brake components that came stock and legal for t2.

There is more information coming down the pipe for these changes.

Another bit of information. SCCA's national championships currently in Topeka, will be moving to Road America in 09.

Another bit. NASA comp licenses will be recognized by the SCCA to compete in SCCA races. You will be required to join SCCA but thats also the case for SCCA racers to race in NASA.

Main sources for more information are at www.scca.com.

And the majority of AS racers hang out at www.asedan.net A wealth of information and questions can be answered there.


P.S. I posted incorrectly. These cars are legal to race in AS right now. You don't have to wait to 09 if you don't want to.

This is great info and might be a reasonable alternative for those who are not so happy about the impending changes to base CMC platforms.

But, I have to ask ... these rules are SCCA nationally sanctioned, but regions run independent of those rules in many cases. Is SCCA National tightening the belt on regional rules alterations?

For instance, I seem to recall that in some regions, V8s weren't allowed in AS ... they had to go to GT classes.

[trj20]

Originally Posted by mitchntx

This is great info and might be a reasonable alternative for those who are not so happy about the impending changes to base CMC platforms.

But, I have to ask ... these rules are SCCA nationally sanctioned, but regions run independent of those rules in many cases. Is SCCA National tightening the belt on regional rules alterations?

For instance, I seem to recall that in some regions, V8s weren't allowed in AS ... they had to go to GT classes.

Up until now, racing in AS meant you had to run a 305 chevy or a 302 ford with a 600 cfm holley carb, end of story. So if someone in the past showed up with a 350, ls1, lt1, or whatever, got dropped into a "regional" catch all class such as ITE or possibly super production. That only happens in regional classes not eligible for the runoffs. Any national class such as AS has had a very specific rule set. These changes in AS will also include the allowance of 350/347 and smaller displacement combinations for the older third gen cars, sn95 and fox mustangs with more weight added to the higher displacement combinations. Then the question comes in... Can I run an ls1 in my mustang? No. Can I run an ls1 in my third gen? No. The newer ls based motors are only allowed in the cars they came in from the factory.

[trj20]

Originally Posted by LS168Camaro

Interesting info on A Sedan.
Are there any legal improvements allowed for power with the LS1? Do people use custom motors from places like Katech? Any idea what the average rear wheel hp/tq numbers for AS cars are?

If your running an ls1 powerplant it must be in T2 trim which is essentially stock other than all of them have been tuned with a programmer of sorts. These changes are very new. Evan who posted above is one of the first to go to AS with his ls1 powered camaro. So if he and others have sent their stock motors to a "katech" or other engine guru he would have to comment on that. The fords have been the hp monsters of AS to date. Rumors and speculation say they make an aproximate 350 hp at the wheels for the top runners. Also a guess but average hp would be 300 rwhp for the 305 chevys, and 315 for the 302 fords. Remember thats a 305/302 with a 600 holley, edlebrock rpm intake, gt-40p heads, and a solid lifter camshaft with .500 lift max. AS motor combinations have been very old school until now.

[jhelms]

You've got some good ideas here. I like the idea of looking for a high mileage 01-02 Z06 though, gutted and with a few bolt ons, that thing should be nasty!

[formula87]

Go for a highmileage 01-04 Z06 Lots of guys I run with in NASA run them and they already have a great susp set up for a track day car.

[SCCAForums.com]

Please don't act like A-Sedan... is now all about late model cars, and Fuel injection.

It is VERY FAR from that! The way they have 'allowed' for the Fuel Injected cars to come play is a joke!

F-body's leave T2... to run in A-Sedan... and get a 150 lb WEIGHT PENALTY!

So... you have a 400HP LS1 Car... racing a 400HP 305 Carb Car...

Both on the Same 16X8 tire...

Both on the same 'Race Suspension...

But one car weighs 3,680... and one car weighs 3280!

You do the math!

Also... I will lay the bet down now... the FASTEST A-SEDAN LS1 Camaro/Firebird won't be able to beat the CURRENT T2 F-Body Track Times @ HPT, or other tracks!

150LB Penalty... and same size tire... is a 'move backwards'... no matter what spring and sway bar you're running!

For bang for the buck... the C5 is the way to go... but you'd better plan $1,000 minimum a weekend... I'm sorry that part is true if you want to compete at the SCCA T1 level.

If you want to race 'regionally'... cut that in half... and don't use good tires.

Good Luck,

Dave

[mattf2]

I was just checking out an AS car at a local shop. Was an ex T2 car. There are weights bolted to the floor all over. The weight will kill the FI cars. Hopefully, they'll
re think for next year...

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by mattf2

I was just checking out an AS car at a local shop. Was an ex T2 car. There are weights bolted to the floor all over. The weight will kill the FI cars. Hopefully, they'll
re think for next year...

Let me guess.

One of the Phoenix Performance Formulas??

[trj20]

Opinions vary on the BASELINE WEIGHTS(Adjustments will be made as needed)

Some people feel the T-2 ls-1 f bodies are overdogs with only 150 #s added.

Some feel they have no chance with 150#s added.

If we have some racers willing (Such as Evan) to get their cars prepped to AS specs, race and prove they need some help then adjustments will be made. This is a work in progress and everyone in AS wants a competitive class for whatever combination. Not an easy task.

305
305 ported truck heads
Old school hot rod technology
400 hp You don't have a broad powerband with a 305.

VS.

LS1
More cubes
Broader powerband
EFI
and 400 hp

So which is better? That remains to be seen. This is a big step in bringing a broader variety of vehicles to a single class.

Dave, if you feel the 305 combination at 3280# is the way to go, than by all means go for it. You have that option with a 4th gen car.

The point to these changes is, for all the ls1 guys, cadillacs, GTO owners that would like to go racing, they now have yet another option. When everyone starts racing being up front really isn't realistic whether its SCCA or NASA. You need time to learn and develop yourself and your car.

As far as racing an f-body, cadillac, GTO goes in SCCA now they could choose.

American Sedan. national class
Improve Touring E regional class


In NASA

CMC (f-bodies only) vs. fords
CMC 2 (f-bodies only) vs. fords
AI Are caddies/GTO allowed in AI?
AIX Everything seems legal here (almost)

Theres good people in both organizations, and road racing is a lot of fun. Whether you choose a ctsv, vette, f-body, or whatever get out there and do it. Open track it or race you will have a ton of fun with good people ready to help you.