Spun rod bearing while road racing...

General Jack · 09-07-2008, 06:11 PM

... at least I'm pretty sure its a rod bearing at this point. Oil was close to 6 qts when I started... but I was at it for 40-50 miles of very hard driving... so the oil level probably dropped a bit. Anyway, I first started hearing the very loud knock in one of the long sweeping left handers.... shut it down and coasted in to the pits.

While the experts are already aware of the oil starvation phenomena in the LS1s while road racing, I'm posting for the benefit of novices like me. Keep that oil topped off! In the future, I'll probably make absolutely sure I have 7 qts upon starting, and check every 15 laps (~28 miles).

mitchntx · 09-07-2008, 11:23 PM

Which track?

I ran an afternoon at Harris hill last weekend. Nice track.

crainholio · 09-08-2008, 08:41 AM

What oil were you running?

I use Mobil-1 15W-50 in my LS1 for track days, and go 1qt over full at the start of each day. I'd been using their 5W-40 Truck & SUV stuff, but availability became a problem.

Oil analysis shows single-digit wear metals so it's definitely not causing problems, and it holds up well to hard use. It has a lot of zinc in it, so a PCV catch can is a must-have if you're running cats.

NJSPDER · 09-08-2008, 04:30 PM

Are there any good baffled pans for f-bodies to add a little more insurance to the situation?

I have access to all of the best oils, so that isn't my concern.

EchoMirage · 09-08-2008, 05:31 PM

look whos getting all into road racing now

http://www.improvedracing.com/produc...a24e6bfba92f7e

i have one

General Jack · 09-08-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchntx

Which track?

I ran an afternoon at Harris hill last weekend. Nice track.

Harris Hill Road, I'm a member out there... but may not be running laps for a while.

General Jack · 09-08-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crainholio

What oil were you running?

I use Mobil-1 15W-50 in my LS1 for track days, and go 1qt over full at the start of each day. I'd been using their 5W-40 Truck & SUV stuff, but availability became a problem.

Oil analysis shows single-digit wear metals so it's definitely not causing problems, and it holds up well to hard use. It has a lot of zinc in it, so a PCV catch can is a must-have if you're running cats.

I was running Mobile 1 10w-30. I started with the oil up to the max full line, if not slightly over, like I have in the past... but I ran more laps this past time. Should have following my initial intuition and pulled into the pits 2 laps earlier.

I'm still relatively new to the road race thing, and obviously I have more to learn if I'm going to continue. This snafu is going to hurt the wallet.

NJSPDER · 09-08-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EchoMirage

look whos getting all into road racing now

http://www.improvedracing.com/produc...a24e6bfba92f7e

i have one

Yeah, well, getting back in it. I realized that 4th gens are just too heavy and autos are way better for drag racing. So I am planning to make the 99 handle and find a nice 3rd gen to play with on the strip.

I used to auto-x my 91 RS with Philly region all the time. I used to not suck at driving. lol

LS168Camaro · 09-08-2008, 08:12 PM

Yep, on the LS1 you want to have 7 quarts in there and then maybe an accusump or the pan baffle or both.
Though 4th gens aren't too heavy, especially if you dedicate them to the track. There is a ton of weight to be removed. Upgraded shocks and springs and a good driver and you can give fits to lots of people on the track. If you go dedicated track car think about trying some higher spring rates than strano's.
You ever considered going wheel to wheel? Mitch has a car ready to race for sale that is CMC/CMC2 legal.

Give me some comparisons between the M3 and the Camaro please. Interesting that it is faster than on the track.

crainholio · 09-08-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Jack

I was running Mobile 1 10w-30. I started with the oil up to the max full line, if not slightly over, like I have in the past... but I ran more laps this past time. Should have following my initial intuition and pulled into the pits 2 laps earlier.

Way too thin, you need more viscosity at the high temps you'll hit running without an oil cooler.

And both of Mobil-1 5 and 10W-30 oils show up on the low end of the 30wt viscosity range at 100degC, great for street use and fuel mileage but not what you want under road course conditions.

Consider either Mobil-1 15W-50 or RedLine 10W-40 for track use, both have proven up to the task.

General Jack · 09-08-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS168Camaro

Yep, on the LS1 you want to have 7 quarts in there and then maybe an accusump or the pan baffle or both.
Though 4th gens aren't too heavy, especially if you dedicate them to the track. There is a ton of weight to be removed. Upgraded shocks and springs and a good driver and you can give fits to lots of people on the track. If you go dedicated track car think about trying some higher spring rates than strano's.
You ever considered going wheel to wheel? Mitch has a car ready to race for sale that is CMC/CMC2 legal.

Give me some comparisons between the M3 and the Camaro please. Interesting that it is faster than on the track.

M3 feels much more nimble, brakes much better (stock brakes on both), has very crisp turn-in, very neutral, just sweet all the way around. It also has better tires, Continental Contact Sports versus Kumho SPTs on the front and Nitto Drags on the rear of the camaro (Nittos do surprisingly well btw...). The camaro is a little bit faster (1-2 seconds) solely because of its tremendous hp advantage (approx 150 hp more) with similar weight, and suspension work I've done. The camaro still plows with the understeer.

Keep in mind I'm still relatively new at this road racing thing.

Stock for stock the M3 would absolutely annihilate the camaro. Its only close because of the fairly extensive mods that the camaro runs better.

General Jack · 09-08-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crainholio

Way too thin, you need more viscosity at the high temps you'll hit running without an oil cooler.

And both of Mobil-1 5 and 10W-30 oils show up on the low end of the 30wt viscosity range at 100degC, great for street use and fuel mileage but not what you want under road course conditions.

Consider either Mobil-1 15W-50 or RedLine 10W-40 for track use, both have proven up to the task.

Thanks, live and learn... the expensive way in this case.

So do you feel that with 7qts of Mobile 1 15w-50 that risk of this happening again would be substantially mitigated?

mitchntx · 09-09-2008, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crainholio

Consider either Mobil-1 15W-50 or RedLine 10W-40 for track use, both have proven up to the task.

I abandoned M1 a LONG time ago. It just thins out too much, even at 15-50. We see ambient temps in the triple digits here and oil temps at 300+

I have moved everything I own, including motorcycle and race car to AmsOil 20W50 Series 2000 racing oil. I am currently waiting on Blackstone analysis after 3 race weekends on an oil change.

An M3 doesn't have to be "muscled" like an F-car. It just lacks the torque of the V8 to pull hard off the corners. Have to keep the revs up.

mitchntx · 09-09-2008, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Jack

Keep in mind I'm still relatively new at this road racing thing.

I think you will find that trying to keep a street car nice and open track it occasionally is a very expensive and time consuming endeavor. Been there ... done that.

When I got into a track only car, my expenses went WAY down.

I no longer had to maintain 2 sets of brakes, wheels/tires, the interior didn't get beat up, the paint stayed nice and I didn't have to spend a boat load of cash to get a heavy, heavy street car to accelerate.

There is a reason why a spec Miata or a Mini Cooper can run similar lap times to a production Camaro ... weight. I would have never thought that 300lbs would equate to 150hp and 2" of brake rotor.

EchoMirage · 09-09-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Jack

Thanks, live and learn... the expensive way in this case.

So do you feel that with 7qts of Mobile 1 15w-50 that risk of this happening again would be substantially mitigated?

i like german castrol 0w-30. dont forget what the first number stands for. its your cold weight. unless you plan on changing oil before/after every track event, you should look into a dual purpose oil; one that will do well on the street and track. heavy weight oils wont help if your temps dip low and you drive it on the street as a weekender or whatever.

crainholio · 09-09-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchntx

I abandoned M1 a LONG time ago. It just thins out too much, even at 15-50. We see ambient temps in the triple digits here and oil temps at 300+

I'm not a fanboy of M1, but I spent three days at Bondurant putting 300+deg on their Vette LS1 running M1 15W-50 and was impressed.

Their fleet (at the time, no current info) of LS1 cars was all running M1 15W-50 and had put nearly two years on them with zero engine failures.

But I'll fully agree on Amsoil, great stuff and signing on for their Preferred Customer program brings the price down nicely if you're running your whole stable on Amsoil products.

LS168Camaro · 09-10-2008, 08:44 PM

Thanks for the info on the M3. I am very curiuos about those rides as I have never driven or riden in one. Would really love to have one as a DD. just more reason to turn the camaro into a track car or sell it and come race with us. Eagles Canyon Oct11/12.

I have been running Motul 15/50 in my LS1 this year. I am sending a sample to Blackstone this week that has 5 track days and around 25 dyno pulls. Will compare it with Mitch's Amsoil.