Predator 101 (sticky?)
03-23-2005, 03:18 PM
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Predator 101 (sticky?) Is there anyone here who has tuned with the Predator able to give some basics on what and how to go about doing it? I know it's no LS1edit or HPTuners, but I didn't think my mods justified the time it would take for me to learn those programs. My hope is that this could be a sticky thread like the ones in the forum already as my friend has a Predator as well and he too doesn't know much about tuning with it. I'm sure we're not the only ones either. I've tried searching and reading through the posts here and at CamaroZ28.com. All I know so far is:
** O2's should read 890-910 @ WOT
** LTFT's should read -2% to 0% during cruise through the RPM's
** LTFT's should read 0% @ WOT
** Once the above has been reached, advance the timing until you see knock retard and then back off timing 2% to 4%
If they are the ideal settings for the car with a simple Predator tune, how do I go about making the changes to the pcm with the options available on the Predator?
** O2's should read 890-910 @ WOT
** LTFT's should read -2% to 0% during cruise through the RPM's
** LTFT's should read 0% @ WOT
** Once the above has been reached, advance the timing until you see knock retard and then back off timing 2% to 4%
If they are the ideal settings for the car with a simple Predator tune, how do I go about making the changes to the pcm with the options available on the Predator?
03-23-2005, 05:50 PM
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First off I'm no expert. Just start experimenting with small increments. If you are getting a few degrees of retard so what. I just let it happen. Let the car tune it's self. What works for me is to add fuel (PE) when you see the KR. I use all the advance I can and then work with adding fuel. When you start getting things right you can hear it and feel it. I use Pred also. I don't feel like spending $500 and buying a lap top. Or spending $500 for a good dyno tune. The Pred is very crude but with practice you can actually get good results. Also helps to put in the 160 thermostat and reset your fans. Good luck. Maybe next year when prices should come down I'll go for something like the HP Tuner.
03-23-2005, 06:40 PM
#3
i went in on a friend for hp tuners and got the lap top for free, i paid 350 
you dont have to have dyno time to tune a car, the best results for all driving conditions are reached on the street. predator tune is better than nothing but its not too great. some tips though, never get ported maf ends, i did, screwed up the whole tune, i swear i got 20 more hp down low and a lot better response with hp tuners now.
as far as WOT o2 readings, this is all dependant on your style of exhaust. its nothign like a wideband but since i cant afford one i have to go with some experimental stuff i believe will get me in a safe range. 925 mv for me is bottom end before i start to detonate, so saying 890-910 is very inaccurate, as most cars i see, with widebands hooked up, read at 915 for right air fuel ratio.
you can get your fuel trims ok with predator, but thats only in one load area, so the rest will all be way off. but like i said this is a lot better than something you cant adjust at all.
timing isnt about advancing it until detonation, its about where your car will make power, some cars make it with 26-27 degrees of timing advance while others can go 28-29. that is just a trial and error thing that really isnt worth it. i would have a custom tune from predator with about max of 28-29 deg of timing and get enough fuel WOT for that, put in fuel so you dont ping/detonate, and then add enough for about another 50-100 mv higher readings. remember you dont have anything accurate enough to run close to any kind of line, and you also have to worry if your knock sensors will read knock. you can put in 32 deg of timing advance and maybe not see any kr until its become a bigger problem. i would have the advance set to a known number that is considered safe.
fuel trims should read 0 at WOT that is true. the predator just isnt good enough, in my opinion, to push any kind of limits. unless you have some kind of logger where you can see a lot of data and a lot of whats going on, play it safe, esp with the timing (after having it and seeing how the tune looks and the difference a good tune makes)
you dont have to have dyno time to tune a car, the best results for all driving conditions are reached on the street. predator tune is better than nothing but its not too great. some tips though, never get ported maf ends, i did, screwed up the whole tune, i swear i got 20 more hp down low and a lot better response with hp tuners now.
as far as WOT o2 readings, this is all dependant on your style of exhaust. its nothign like a wideband but since i cant afford one i have to go with some experimental stuff i believe will get me in a safe range. 925 mv for me is bottom end before i start to detonate, so saying 890-910 is very inaccurate, as most cars i see, with widebands hooked up, read at 915 for right air fuel ratio.
you can get your fuel trims ok with predator, but thats only in one load area, so the rest will all be way off. but like i said this is a lot better than something you cant adjust at all.
timing isnt about advancing it until detonation, its about where your car will make power, some cars make it with 26-27 degrees of timing advance while others can go 28-29. that is just a trial and error thing that really isnt worth it. i would have a custom tune from predator with about max of 28-29 deg of timing and get enough fuel WOT for that, put in fuel so you dont ping/detonate, and then add enough for about another 50-100 mv higher readings. remember you dont have anything accurate enough to run close to any kind of line, and you also have to worry if your knock sensors will read knock. you can put in 32 deg of timing advance and maybe not see any kr until its become a bigger problem. i would have the advance set to a known number that is considered safe.
fuel trims should read 0 at WOT that is true. the predator just isnt good enough, in my opinion, to push any kind of limits. unless you have some kind of logger where you can see a lot of data and a lot of whats going on, play it safe, esp with the timing (after having it and seeing how the tune looks and the difference a good tune makes)
03-23-2005, 06:46 PM
#4
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If someone wants to make a well laid out document w/info on tuning w/a predator I'd be more than willing to host (if it's a word doc or other type) and put it in the main sticky above... the more resources we have the better
I've never used/seen a predator so not sure exactly what it can change and by how much... the one disadvantage is going to be that it's all or nothing though... all PE is richer or all leaner... can't make incremental changes to certain loads/rpms I don't think... same for spark advance?
I've never used/seen a predator so not sure exactly what it can change and by how much... the one disadvantage is going to be that it's all or nothing though... all PE is richer or all leaner... can't make incremental changes to certain loads/rpms I don't think... same for spark advance?
03-23-2005, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
i have been screwing with predator for about 2 years and i know a bit about it, if i get some time ill write somethign up on it. want me to just put a word file up or type it all up in here?
Either or... if you put it in a word doc I can host it for you, or you can make a post about it and I can link it in the main sticky
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03-24-2005, 04:18 AM
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Hmm, I had a pretty long write up in this section about two years ago, maybe +/-. The predator is a pretty thorough tool, as long as its used in conjunction w/ a scanner as mentioned above. I worked with James quite a bit, when they first hit the LS1 market, lots of advances since then thats for sure. In its basic form, like the HPP3 I wouldnt use it for anything other than shift points and rev limiter. But working with James, I was able to tune my car fairly well with the then TR224 and later TSP 231/237 112* cams. I'll see what you come up with and might be able to contribute some.
03-24-2005, 08:39 AM
#10
Predator 101 (as requested)
By: WS6FirebirdTA00
First off let me state this, I am in no way a professional. These are the personal view of myself, and the most common and accepted ways of tuning with the Diablo Sport Predator by others on LS1Tech.com. These steps will not guarantee the correct tune but will lead you doing it the safer way. I may leave things out or not clearly explain some things, if you feel I have left something out or stated something wrong, please let me know so I can correct it.
I also HIGHLY recommend that if you have an aftermarket MAF sensor or ported MAF ends that you replace them with your stock unit at this time, and leave it like that. This will mess with the calibration of the MAF sensor and throw your tune off a lot, I learned this first hand.
Sorry if I went too far in depth but I tried to cover all the questions that I had initially.
So now the question at hand:
I installed the Predator tune to my car, now how do I tune it myself for better performance?
There are many things you can do yourself, most of it however has little effect on how the car runs at regular driving conditions. My recommendation would be to get the correct cables to connect the Predator to the computer and get custom tunes from Diablo Sport (which they now charge a fee, which I am unsure of the exact price).
Fan Temperatures:
I would start with getting your fan temperatures to a good value. There is no set “good” number for these, it all depends on what part of the country you are in and what kind of weather you see. As a rule of thumb, I would not turn the fans on until about 10* above the thermostat open temp. For example, if you have a 180* thermostat, I would personally set the fan temperatures as follows:
Fan 1 on: 192
Fan 1 off: 187
Fan 2 on: 198
Fan 2 off: 193
You just want to keep it where at idle the fans will switch on AND OFF. If they stay on all the time, bump up the temperatures until they will turn off. Summer and winter conditions in your area will greatly change these values if you are trying to find the limit where you can run the coldest and have the fans turn off. The reason you want them to turn off is because you don’t want to burn the fans up. Some run them all the time with no issue I just wouldn’t recommend running the fans all the time.
Rev limit:
Unless you have an aftermarket spring kit installed AND (not or) have a need to rev that high, I would leave these untouched from the factory setting.
Wheel/gear change:
If you have aftermarket gears or wheels, you can recalibrate your computer to correctly read your vehicle speed. This will vary with wheel size and gear selection but is pretty self explanatory.
Where to start fuel tuning:
OK, so you have the tune in your car and your ready to go right? Not if you want to take full advantage of the product. The best thing to do would be to get a friend to go out riding with you. After you installed the first tune into your car, drive around for about 30 min or so, some steady driving towards the end, but try and vary RPMs so the computer can learn some fuel trims.
Now you want to have a friend check out the fuel trims. Unfortunately the Predator cannot log or change different RPM vs Load cells but you can get a “rough” tune to help the car respond better. Do some steady throttle driving and take a look at the long term fuel trims (will be referred to as LTFTs for the rest of this post). The short term fuel trims should be leveled out somewhat at this time. The LTFT numbers are “learned” by the changed in the STFTs. There is no need to go into detail just know that the important one is the LTFT as long as the STFTs read fairly steady (do not change more than a few percent).
Have him or her look at where the numbers seem to steady out at after about 20-30 min of driving since your last start up. This will help give more accurate data.
Now have them write that number down and tell them to hold on. Keep it on the fuel trims for now. Go to a designated area where higher speeds are legal and safe. Now you want to make a WOT (wide open throttle) pass and see if the fuel trims change at all. Make about 2 or 3 of these runs. If it reads positive, record the value (highest) onto a sheet of paper and send that to Diablo sport and tell them to fix your tune. You want the fuel trims to be slightly negative at part throttle driving and zero at full throttle. Keep getting data and new tunes from Diablo until this is achieved.
PE (Power Enrichment):
If you don’t want to get a new tune from Diablo all you have to worry about is the WOT values if they are positive. If they are, before you go back out you want to add whatever percent it is reading to your PE (power enrichment) in the tune it yourself section.
OK, so now you want to go out and see what the oxygen sensors are reading at WOT. Most stock exhaust cars seem to be running the right air fuel ratio at 890-910 mV. This number is not accurate at all though. Each car will vary and if you have headers the correct air fuel ratio may read out 930 mV. The reason for different numbers with headers is that the o2 sensors are farther down the exhaust track and do not run at the right temperatures for the way the tables are. The next step will help determine this.
Now you want to go to that same safe place where high speeds are legal and go wide open. The numbers your going to be looking at mainly is KR (knock retard).
Brief explanation of KR: PLEASE READ
Knock retard is referred to as detonation, pinging and knocking most commonly. What happens is, if the fuel charge in the engine is insufficient and the maximum temperatures within the combustion chamber are too high, the fuel will pre-ignite. This means that the gas/air charge will actually ignite before the spark plug does. THIS IS BAD. This will lead to broken internal engine parts and lots of other things that aren’t good if this happens for extended periods of time.
This is easily explained with thermodynamics, I will just say something briefly about it. There are a few ways this happens, if the maximum temperature is too hot in the engine, if the maximum pressure is too high, if your octane rating is too low, and/or if your air fuel charge is lean. What happens is that the opposite size from the spark plug actually starts to burn the air fuel charge before the spark plug goes off, sending the explosion towards the spark plug. It could also be started at the spark plug if it runs at too high of a temperature.
Everyone seems to think that engine knock is sensed by the knock sensors. This is true, but sometimes it is not. If this pre-ignition starts just late enough, by the time the whole mixture is being burnt, the spark plug would have just been finishing its burn cycle. This is not too bad, however there is still knock going on. THIS IS WHY YOU DON’T WANT TO GO TRIAL AND ERROR WITH TIMING. The problem with “trying” things is you could actually time it just right so that both flashes from the pre-ignition and the spark plug meet, when each only burn half of the mixture in the combustion chamber, and meet in the center. This will cause an enormous rise in the maximum pressure in the cylinder and can cause some very serious problems. Sorry if I lost some of you all but I just would like to get the point out that this is not something to just go and “try” things.
PE cont.:
You want to go drive around and scroll all the way to the bottom of the screen. Look at KR and the oxygen sensor mV on bank one and two, but only sensors one on the both of those, as those are the ones measuring the exhaust before the catalytic converters. If you have no KR that’s good, look at what the o2 sensors mV reading is. Make sure you record these numbers from the WOT run. My rule of thumb was to get the right amount of fuel in there (with stock timing) and then bump it up a few percent to get it up another 50-100 mV and make sure it was safe to drive on. About 900 mV on most stock cars I have seen is a good target to be around and about 930 on cars with LT headers. Like I said these numbers are not consistent. You could ready 870 and still be ok. If I didn’t have any KR I would take fuel out until I saw the slightest bit and then bring up the numbers another 50-100 mV, just add to the PE to get higher numbers, go out and check how much they went up. Once you reached your goal your set.
Spark advance:
I would not recommend putting timing in until it would show KR and then backing it off. To me this is a dangerous way to tune the car. I would email Diablo and tell them to put WOT timing from 3000+ RPM to about 28 deg maybe 29. This will be enough to help the car perform well and hopefully not cause any issues. You can also do this yourself, just add timing until you see it reach your desired number on the real time data screen at high rpm, WOT and then stop.
After this you want to go back out, recheck your o2 mV reading and KR and make sure they are still good. It is always good to go and recheck this every month or so. I liked to tune it in the summer because that is the most likely time I have seen any kind of detonation.
All of this is done a lot better, and easier with a data logger. However if you dont have have, the Predator she be OK to get fairly close.
GEAR RATIO:
Apparently Predator has issues with this, but from what others said, there is a fix on their web site. I just haven't found it on there. But apparently this is a common issue.
FOR A4 CARS:
I have a 6 speed car and only helped my friend with his for about a day. Plus he wouldn't let me go "testing" different setting so I will put info in here based on what others said.
Taken from WAHUSKER
"If your racing, turn your shift times all the way down. I had mine at -25% at the track.
Leave the shift pressure alone. This only seems to damage things."
By: WS6FirebirdTA00
First off let me state this, I am in no way a professional. These are the personal view of myself, and the most common and accepted ways of tuning with the Diablo Sport Predator by others on LS1Tech.com. These steps will not guarantee the correct tune but will lead you doing it the safer way. I may leave things out or not clearly explain some things, if you feel I have left something out or stated something wrong, please let me know so I can correct it.
I also HIGHLY recommend that if you have an aftermarket MAF sensor or ported MAF ends that you replace them with your stock unit at this time, and leave it like that. This will mess with the calibration of the MAF sensor and throw your tune off a lot, I learned this first hand.
Sorry if I went too far in depth but I tried to cover all the questions that I had initially.
So now the question at hand:
I installed the Predator tune to my car, now how do I tune it myself for better performance?
There are many things you can do yourself, most of it however has little effect on how the car runs at regular driving conditions. My recommendation would be to get the correct cables to connect the Predator to the computer and get custom tunes from Diablo Sport (which they now charge a fee, which I am unsure of the exact price).
Fan Temperatures:
I would start with getting your fan temperatures to a good value. There is no set “good” number for these, it all depends on what part of the country you are in and what kind of weather you see. As a rule of thumb, I would not turn the fans on until about 10* above the thermostat open temp. For example, if you have a 180* thermostat, I would personally set the fan temperatures as follows:
Fan 1 on: 192
Fan 1 off: 187
Fan 2 on: 198
Fan 2 off: 193
You just want to keep it where at idle the fans will switch on AND OFF. If they stay on all the time, bump up the temperatures until they will turn off. Summer and winter conditions in your area will greatly change these values if you are trying to find the limit where you can run the coldest and have the fans turn off. The reason you want them to turn off is because you don’t want to burn the fans up. Some run them all the time with no issue I just wouldn’t recommend running the fans all the time.
Rev limit:
Unless you have an aftermarket spring kit installed AND (not or) have a need to rev that high, I would leave these untouched from the factory setting.
Wheel/gear change:
If you have aftermarket gears or wheels, you can recalibrate your computer to correctly read your vehicle speed. This will vary with wheel size and gear selection but is pretty self explanatory.
Where to start fuel tuning:
OK, so you have the tune in your car and your ready to go right? Not if you want to take full advantage of the product. The best thing to do would be to get a friend to go out riding with you. After you installed the first tune into your car, drive around for about 30 min or so, some steady driving towards the end, but try and vary RPMs so the computer can learn some fuel trims.
Now you want to have a friend check out the fuel trims. Unfortunately the Predator cannot log or change different RPM vs Load cells but you can get a “rough” tune to help the car respond better. Do some steady throttle driving and take a look at the long term fuel trims (will be referred to as LTFTs for the rest of this post). The short term fuel trims should be leveled out somewhat at this time. The LTFT numbers are “learned” by the changed in the STFTs. There is no need to go into detail just know that the important one is the LTFT as long as the STFTs read fairly steady (do not change more than a few percent).
Have him or her look at where the numbers seem to steady out at after about 20-30 min of driving since your last start up. This will help give more accurate data.
Now have them write that number down and tell them to hold on. Keep it on the fuel trims for now. Go to a designated area where higher speeds are legal and safe. Now you want to make a WOT (wide open throttle) pass and see if the fuel trims change at all. Make about 2 or 3 of these runs. If it reads positive, record the value (highest) onto a sheet of paper and send that to Diablo sport and tell them to fix your tune. You want the fuel trims to be slightly negative at part throttle driving and zero at full throttle. Keep getting data and new tunes from Diablo until this is achieved.
PE (Power Enrichment):
If you don’t want to get a new tune from Diablo all you have to worry about is the WOT values if they are positive. If they are, before you go back out you want to add whatever percent it is reading to your PE (power enrichment) in the tune it yourself section.
OK, so now you want to go out and see what the oxygen sensors are reading at WOT. Most stock exhaust cars seem to be running the right air fuel ratio at 890-910 mV. This number is not accurate at all though. Each car will vary and if you have headers the correct air fuel ratio may read out 930 mV. The reason for different numbers with headers is that the o2 sensors are farther down the exhaust track and do not run at the right temperatures for the way the tables are. The next step will help determine this.
Now you want to go to that same safe place where high speeds are legal and go wide open. The numbers your going to be looking at mainly is KR (knock retard).
Brief explanation of KR: PLEASE READ
Knock retard is referred to as detonation, pinging and knocking most commonly. What happens is, if the fuel charge in the engine is insufficient and the maximum temperatures within the combustion chamber are too high, the fuel will pre-ignite. This means that the gas/air charge will actually ignite before the spark plug does. THIS IS BAD. This will lead to broken internal engine parts and lots of other things that aren’t good if this happens for extended periods of time.
This is easily explained with thermodynamics, I will just say something briefly about it. There are a few ways this happens, if the maximum temperature is too hot in the engine, if the maximum pressure is too high, if your octane rating is too low, and/or if your air fuel charge is lean. What happens is that the opposite size from the spark plug actually starts to burn the air fuel charge before the spark plug goes off, sending the explosion towards the spark plug. It could also be started at the spark plug if it runs at too high of a temperature.
Everyone seems to think that engine knock is sensed by the knock sensors. This is true, but sometimes it is not. If this pre-ignition starts just late enough, by the time the whole mixture is being burnt, the spark plug would have just been finishing its burn cycle. This is not too bad, however there is still knock going on. THIS IS WHY YOU DON’T WANT TO GO TRIAL AND ERROR WITH TIMING. The problem with “trying” things is you could actually time it just right so that both flashes from the pre-ignition and the spark plug meet, when each only burn half of the mixture in the combustion chamber, and meet in the center. This will cause an enormous rise in the maximum pressure in the cylinder and can cause some very serious problems. Sorry if I lost some of you all but I just would like to get the point out that this is not something to just go and “try” things.
PE cont.:
You want to go drive around and scroll all the way to the bottom of the screen. Look at KR and the oxygen sensor mV on bank one and two, but only sensors one on the both of those, as those are the ones measuring the exhaust before the catalytic converters. If you have no KR that’s good, look at what the o2 sensors mV reading is. Make sure you record these numbers from the WOT run. My rule of thumb was to get the right amount of fuel in there (with stock timing) and then bump it up a few percent to get it up another 50-100 mV and make sure it was safe to drive on. About 900 mV on most stock cars I have seen is a good target to be around and about 930 on cars with LT headers. Like I said these numbers are not consistent. You could ready 870 and still be ok. If I didn’t have any KR I would take fuel out until I saw the slightest bit and then bring up the numbers another 50-100 mV, just add to the PE to get higher numbers, go out and check how much they went up. Once you reached your goal your set.
Spark advance:
I would not recommend putting timing in until it would show KR and then backing it off. To me this is a dangerous way to tune the car. I would email Diablo and tell them to put WOT timing from 3000+ RPM to about 28 deg maybe 29. This will be enough to help the car perform well and hopefully not cause any issues. You can also do this yourself, just add timing until you see it reach your desired number on the real time data screen at high rpm, WOT and then stop.
After this you want to go back out, recheck your o2 mV reading and KR and make sure they are still good. It is always good to go and recheck this every month or so. I liked to tune it in the summer because that is the most likely time I have seen any kind of detonation.
All of this is done a lot better, and easier with a data logger. However if you dont have have, the Predator she be OK to get fairly close.
GEAR RATIO:
Apparently Predator has issues with this, but from what others said, there is a fix on their web site. I just haven't found it on there. But apparently this is a common issue.
FOR A4 CARS:
I have a 6 speed car and only helped my friend with his for about a day. Plus he wouldn't let me go "testing" different setting so I will put info in here based on what others said.
Taken from WAHUSKER
"If your racing, turn your shift times all the way down. I had mine at -25% at the track.
Leave the shift pressure alone. This only seems to damage things."
Last edited by WS6FirebirdTA00; 02-07-2006 at 07:00 PM.
03-24-2005, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
Predator 101 (as requested)
By: WS6FirebirdTA00
By: WS6FirebirdTA00
03-24-2005, 05:06 PM
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Thanks for some very good info on the predator. Hope to get into tsome tuning this summer. However, I ahve another question. Last year changed the rear gear on my 01 TA, A4 to a 3.42 ratio. Tried to program the computer for the new gear with my predator. Ny computer would not take this change, no matter what I did the spedo read as if the original gear was still installed. Called predator and the tech gave we some oddball tire sizes to enter in to the computer. This did get the spedo back in the ballpark. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem.
03-24-2005, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by trans am jack
Thanks for some very good info on the predator. Hope to get into tsome tuning this summer. However, I ahve another question. Last year changed the rear gear on my 01 TA, A4 to a 3.42 ratio. Tried to program the computer for the new gear with my predator. Ny computer would not take this change, no matter what I did the spedo read as if the original gear was still installed. Called predator and the tech gave we some oddball tire sizes to enter in to the computer. This did get the spedo back in the ballpark. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem.
03-24-2005, 06:23 PM
#15
you might have to make sure the current gear ratio is in there, the tires sizes are odd, i think my profile was in there at 70, but its really 40, go figure?
when you put headers on the o2 sensors stay cooler and it changes the readings. im not sure of the exact reason why this is, i just know they have to run at a certain temp to work right. but the cooler they are the mV will go higher. as least this is what i have seen on multiple cars including my own.
when you put headers on the o2 sensors stay cooler and it changes the readings. im not sure of the exact reason why this is, i just know they have to run at a certain temp to work right. but the cooler they are the mV will go higher. as least this is what i have seen on multiple cars including my own.
03-24-2005, 07:38 PM
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The gear ratio problem was the Predator not your car. It said somthing about it on their website a while back. I belive they were going to fix it with a new version but im unsure if it ever came out.
03-24-2005, 09:30 PM
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Good write up WS6. I would add a few minor tweaks....
If you change your thermostat, go ahead & adjust your fan temps down to compensate.
If your racing, turn your shift times all the way down. I had mine at -25% at the track.
Leave the shift pressure alone. This only seems to damage things.
28* of timing seems to be a good place to start. If you get KR, back off the timing & add PE until it goes away. Some people say it's OK to have as much as 5*. But I like my rod bearings & ring lands in 1 piece, so I say get rid of it. That said, a blip here or there durning shifts or when you first go WOT is acceptable. It's the steady 2-3* you need to worry about.
Stay away from after market MAFs. They screw up the PCM. You can run MAF ends to increase air flow & usually be OK. But keep the stock electronics.
If you put in a cam, buy HP Tuner or LS1 Edit!. Or suffer with your tranny shifting like crap. Until then a Predator should do fine for you.
If you change your thermostat, go ahead & adjust your fan temps down to compensate.
If your racing, turn your shift times all the way down. I had mine at -25% at the track.
Leave the shift pressure alone. This only seems to damage things.
28* of timing seems to be a good place to start. If you get KR, back off the timing & add PE until it goes away. Some people say it's OK to have as much as 5*. But I like my rod bearings & ring lands in 1 piece, so I say get rid of it. That said, a blip here or there durning shifts or when you first go WOT is acceptable. It's the steady 2-3* you need to worry about.
Stay away from after market MAFs. They screw up the PCM. You can run MAF ends to increase air flow & usually be OK. But keep the stock electronics.
If you put in a cam, buy HP Tuner or LS1 Edit!. Or suffer with your tranny shifting like crap. Until then a Predator should do fine for you.
lol
03-25-2005, 05:07 PM
#19
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This is a great idea. I just bought a Predator and I think it will serve me well for my planned bolt ons. I've seen plenty of guys here using them with great sucess. I think people forget custom tuning is available with the Predator and there are alot of shops/tuners who can custom tune on the dyno as well so I don't think it is as limited like everyone with HP Tuners says.
Once your car is tuned it's done, period, until you make changes again, whether you have HPT, Predator, or whaveter. No matter what whether you have HPT or a Predator the ONLY way you'll know if your WOT tune is right is by using a wideband or putting the car on a dyno. So you're not saving $ with HPT imo.
I think a car can be tuned just as well with the Predator as it would with anything else. I think it's great someone with some knowledge in this area is putting something together here.
There is a "fix" for the gear ratio on Diablosport's or RWTD's website.
Once your car is tuned it's done, period, until you make changes again, whether you have HPT, Predator, or whaveter. No matter what whether you have HPT or a Predator the ONLY way you'll know if your WOT tune is right is by using a wideband or putting the car on a dyno. So you're not saving $ with HPT imo.
I think a car can be tuned just as well with the Predator as it would with anything else. I think it's great someone with some knowledge in this area is putting something together here.
There is a "fix" for the gear ratio on Diablosport's or RWTD's website.
03-25-2005, 05:20 PM
#20
TECH Senior Member
Originally Posted by SLPSS01
I think a car can be tuned just as well with the Predator as it would with anything else. I think it's great someone with some knowledge in this area is putting something together here.
There is a "fix" for the gear ratio on Diablosport's or RWTD's website.
There is a "fix" for the gear ratio on Diablosport's or RWTD's website.
The key advantage of an all out tuner is that flexibility ... you don't have to richen all WOT up 5% or x% ... you can richen just certain RPM ranges... you can change spark at certain areas based on load and RPM instead of changing everything ... Plus a full tuner gives you lots of access to all of the misc tables that are really needed for part throttle driveability (a tune is not just WOT ... a good tune is also part throttle for driveability)
Plus if you're tuning once and that's it till changes... no sense even buying the predator or anything ... have it tuned and be done...
The Predator is a decent handheld... but it doesn't compare to the full blown tuners available as far as flexibility, what it can change, and precision (ala HP tuners, Flashscan or even LS1 Edit)
I've never seen the Diablo Tuner program (that lets them make tunes and upload w/a predator) ... anyone know what it's capabilities are?