fredmr39

^^^ABOUT THE POLL: you may choose 2 answers-ex: you had them powered by the stock amp, was not happy so you powered them with and aftermarket amp and were then pleased-you would select the corresponding options, etc. *Think of pleased as comparison to the stock setup-if you had to live with one or the other..were/are you pleased with the difference the EU-700s made?..or not worth the money/time.

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The following was done on a '98 CAMARO.

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This thread is intended to help guide one through the process of effectively replacing the factory subs with better ones, while keeping everything else stock. Though this can never replace your typical amp/box/sub combo -- the improvement over factory is EXTREMELY SIGNIFICANT and a VERY good choice if you simply want fuller bass, want to maintain th stock look, do not want a boxed sub (including stealth)/additional amps, etc.... You may always choose to power them with a separate amp in the future for even more volume and clarity. Refer to the specs linked below for powering information.

The subs replacing factory subs are these, by *Elemental Designs:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/pro...products_id=33
--You will need two D4 (dual 4 Ohm voice coils)

***See post #72 for additional information on the eD Eu-700 sub***

*If you have no heard of Elemental Designs, they are a smaller company and have very nice products @ reasonable prices. This comment was intended solely to those who have never heard of ED and may look past them.


Other items needed for install:
- speaker wire
- Dynamat (or any sound deadener/dampener)
- something to act as a spacer to pull subs out more (greater than about .25" and at MOST .5")
- 8 steel screws, at least 1in in length
- a type of caulk or sealant or adhesive that will remain flexible (for between the spacer and sheet metal)
- whatever tools you need or method you can think of to create a hole at least an inch (preferably a little greater than) for behind the speaker for the speaker's port
- basic electrical tools/supplies needed for cutting/reconnecting wires (electrical tape, optional soldering gun, crimps, wire strippers/crimpers/needle nose pliers, etc...)
- wiring diagram...not necessary, but recommended.. I will not try to provide all of them because I do not want to confuse anyone and am unaware of the differences with TAs/etc...
- bass blockers for rear hatch (optional)

POWER INFO: If you plan on powering them separately, consult this chart on powering eu700s http://www.edesignaudio.com/edv2/ele..._7kv2chart.php

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First, here are some comparison shots of the factory speakers and the new eu700s....notice especially the difference in mounting depth.





and here is the patient (bro's '98)...




***This "write-up" does not show all steps, and is incomplete in that you would probably have SOME trouble if you have ZERO idea what you are doing***


STEP 1: disconnect battery

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STEP 2: access and remove factory subs in rear panel...you should now see something like this (your wire colors may vary...USUALLY, the wire with a black like down the center along the length of the wire is the negative one -- in this case below, solid green was positive... -on the driver's side, the positive wire was not solid, and has a white stripe to indicate it... PLEASE refer to the wiring diagrams provided at the top of this page)



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STEP 3: due to space limitations, I decided to simply cut off the factory harness... If you really want to have the option of going back to stock WITH the harness....obviously just tap into the line before it.

STEP 3 cont.: Now, create a 1-1.5" diameter hole in center of where sub will mount for the vented pole (see "PORT" in photo)...if you absolutely cannot do this, use the maximum .5" spacer (min. distance behind speaker suggested by eD tech is .25"),

*Note that the hole has not been completely cut here.


...as you can see, there isn't much wire here....so once stripped or tapped into, the FIRST thing I would do is extend the wires using a single piece of speaker wire....... this way, if you mess up or have to re-strip ends you can afford to do so.....plus it just makes life easier than messing with smaller wires.

All connections should ideally be soldered and covered in electrical tape or heat shrink tubing. If not, twist them damn well and use crimps/connectors/etc..

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STEP 4: create a spacer that will be used to pull the speaker out (towards you) more and the magnet/port/rear of speaker off and away from the sheet metal behind it... Make it such that it fits the dimensions and lines of the previous mounting position. When installing, this is where you will use the adhesive/sealant of your choice that bonds to MDF/special wood/plastic/foam/WHATEVER you used to make your spacer and to the metal. Make sure the sealant you use will remain permanently flexible... I used a form of polyurethane caulk.

*Note that flat top screws should be used, or set them below the surface of the spacer so the sub can mount on a flatter surface... Be sure that once you mount the spacer, the wires are all BEHIND it... you may wish to cut a notch at the bottom of the spacer so the wires have more room (more obvious once you actually do and see this)... One or two screws at most should be enough to securely hold your spacer in - however, make sure that wherever you place these holes that you do not interfere with speaker holes (if you are picky about the orientation)...


***when drilling holes here, and ESPECIALLY when mounting the sub...it can be risk to just go drilling full speed with the screw penetrating the metal itself...you do NOT want to slip and damage your new speakers. I would first take a smaller bit suited for metal drilling, drill a hole first, then screw into that hole... whenever you are drilling, it is also a good idea to apply pressure IN AND OUT AWAY from the speaker a little, so that if you were to slip, hopefully you would miss the speaker.

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STEP 5: Place Dynamat/sound dampening material in the area leaving holes for just the speaker...

*Note that there are no pics because I did NOT do this, but had planned on it... shipping delays prevented product from arriving while I was at home and able to complete the install... I plan on adding the Dynamat later, but for the time being...there were VERY surprisingly few things rattling...and the things that DID rattle, I'm not sure the Dynamat would help 100%...

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STEP 6: Wire up your new eu700s! Since they are D4 Ohm speakers, and we want a 2 Ohm impedance...we wire in PARALLEL. Below its a diagram, which may be unclear to everyone but me since I created it....so let me know if it makes sense. It is NOT difficult at all, and if you didn't know anything besides POSITIVE and NEGATIVE and had no idea what parallel wiring meant and went ahead and "guessed".....you would probably "guess" right since it "looks" how you would expect it to...

*Note that here in the diagram the wires are "tapped" instead of the harness being cut... You can also see the port here that needs to breathe and shouldn't be right against a metal surface...

***All wiring was done on a '98 CAMARO....if you do this in a Firebird you will want to use all of the original wires since Firebirds have 4-ohm DVC (dual voice coil) subs from the factory***

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STEP 7: Insert speakers. Now, we can slip our speakers into place! If you used a .5" spacer...this may take some patience, playing with angles, and pulling on the rear sails a bit. What worked for me was get the magnet in first, then slip the top part in, get it as flush as possible...and pull up on the plastic below until you can sip it in. You will NOT have to take off the panel, but me choose to just tug on the side molding by the door to give that extra cm you need...



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STEP 8: If all appears well (seats well, wires behind speaker, nothing being completely smashed, speaker grille tabs not puncturing anything, etc), go ahead and screw them in. Remember to drill a small hole first to help guide the screw in easier and BE CAREFUL...

*completely installed:


*Finished product (wood painted black, grille fabric removed):

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Nice writeup. I love the eD lineup of amps and speakers. I am going to replace my JL audio sub with an eD one eventually. I'd like to do this swap as well in the future.

slw ls1

iTrader: (6)

I just noticed that one of my rear subs is starting to crackle and was looking for a replacemetn, which I think I just found. Great write up and I will probably be doing this in the near future and will post my results.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Bear in mind that if you do this in a Firebird you will want to use all of the original wires since Firebirds have 4-ohm DVC subs from the factory.

fredmr39

Thanks for pointing that out!

Darth Z

Nice writeup!

CULATR

iTrader: (96)

good write up!! I smell a sticky!!!

fredmr39

Thanks for the comments! If anyone is currently running these eu700s off of the stock amp in the f-body, please leave feedback so others have more opinions to go off of. Also, if you use this writeup for guidance, please let me know if I should include more pictures (have more..but don't need to see EVERY thing since it could get quite lengthy..) or details that would be useful for people not familiar with electrical stuff.

michaelg589

iTrader: (1)

what will those subs be running at once theyre all wired up? the stock monsoon amp runs at 2 ohm right? So do you have to wire the subs two coils in parrallel or in series to make it 2 ohm?

fredmr39

PARALLEL

Yes, the stock amp performs best at 2 Ohm impedance loads.

4 Ohms per voicecoil, 2 voicecoils

We can calculate this for 2 objects in parallel by:

(4*4)/(4+4) = 2
(essentially find the product of the 2 objects in parallel, and divide by their sum) -clearly for 2 objects of the same impedance or resistance, the total impedance or resistance is halved

If they were in series, we would add them: 4+4 = 8. (notice here it's doubled)

*see my diagram above

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*note that I say impedance OR resistance....that wasn't to make it seem like they are the same...the method is, but the definitions are not.

Maybe some confusion comes from the following: DVC sub, 4 ohm impedance. Hard to tell what exactly that means...and might be translated by some into each voicecoil having 2 ohms or something, and add them - 4 ohms total......either way, wrong.


The wording that makes more sense is: Dual 4 ohm subwoofer. Knowing that the impedance given is that of the voicecoil, it's clear that the name means there are TWO 4 ohm voice coils.


-I just thought about that and the way I might have typed it above that may be confusing....

michaelg589

iTrader: (1)

so then those subs would work ok with the factory amp? I understand they are a much higher wattage than the stock subs, but would they be better than the stock ones off the stock amp? I would really like to upgrade them without to much modification the the rest of the system.

fredmr39

minimum power to start the speakers up is 50 watts....Monsoon amp I assume puts 150 watts (peak) into each sub....so, the RMS value surely is greater than 50 wrms. You will not be underpowering these subs, and would not be damaging them. According to Elemental Designs, powering them with less than 50 watts will NOT cause damage to the speaker.

Do they make a difference over stock? Yes - big difference, even with stock amp. This comes from better quality of materials/construction, more efficient, etc...stuff like that. The Camaro I installed them in was 100% stock - even the HU. I will post results in the future after HU installation.

One other thing - you will want to throw a filter/bass blocker in the hatch speakers at least to eliminate the lower frequencies...as they distort pretty poorly as you turn up the bass, and you will not be able to enjoyable turn up the volume (of bass). Either that, or putting the fade up toward the front will help as well. Or disconnect the hatch speakers if you have nice fronts. I never got to mention this in my initial post because it was too long - but if you find yourself turning up the volume and are hearing distortion, fade everything to the front entirely, then slowly back to even until you hear distortion, then back off a little (fade front slightly).

sledneck687

iTrader: (1)

i saw that they offer these in a D2 also, would those be better because the monsoons 2 ohm?

fredmr39

No - I would have clarified why better....but I ran out of characters allowed per single post.

If you have two 2-ohm voice coils...you would want them wired up in series or in parallel. If you wired them in series, the impedance would be 4 ohms for the sub......wire them in parallel, and the impedance is 1 ohm.... either way, you don't get the 2 ohm impedance the factory amp performs best at.

If you have two 4-ohm voice coils...and wired them in series, you would have 8 ohms.....wire them in parallel however, and you have a 2 ohm impedance, which is what the factory Monsoon amp performs best at and is the reason you want D4, Dual-4ohm voice coils.

If you were replacing them with a sub you found that had ONE voice coil, you would ideally want THAT voice coil to have an impedance of 2-ohms.

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Remember that D4 is read as "dual 4-ohm subwoofer" (1)...not something like "dual voice coils subwoofer - 4 ohms" (2) which could be misinterpreted from "DVC 4ohms" (3)........

If you read it as notation (1), it is clear there are 2 voice coils each with a 4 ohm impedance.... where in notations (2) and (3) it could sound like they were trying to give the subs total impedance....which is not the case for dual voice coil setups -- the impedance is that of each voice coil.

sledneck687

iTrader: (1)

thanks a lot, im a neewb when it comes to stereo stuff, but you made that so simple to understand

HiTechGent

The big question is how do they sound???

WHen the EU-700's first hit the market, they were the rage on this forum. Until the first couple of people who tried these reported that they sounded like crap. Even the guy from Elemental Designs said these were not a good match for the Monsoon system.

Note: This is only true for a DVC speaker such as the EU-700. It's been reported that you get really crappy sound if you try to bridge the 2 pairs for a SVC speaker (which is just about every other 6.5" speaker in existance).

fredmr39

IMO, very nice. It's hard to describe sound, but I was definitely very pleased and don't think it could get any better for being in the rear sails. I only have on sub in my car with about 300wrms going through it, and my brother (who I installed the eu700s for) had heard mine before I did his. After he heard his, he was VERY pleased - even after hearing mine (which is weak, yes....but when you are comparing it to two IB subs....). He kept saying how he had no idea that sound would come from two 6.5" subs.

Hopefully more people see this thread before it gets lost -- and then they will be able to vote on the poll if they have done the install, and how pleased they were with the results.


Must've been some time ago - I have searched for eu700s briefly and sound nothing, so I decided to post. I haven't been around this forum enough to know anything though. Not sure how you could say it sounds like crap...I'm VERY surprised to hear that. In case people are wondering, I'm not someone that hasn't heard bass before and this is just massive amounts to me or something...it is not like a 10" - I have one. I have friends that have 1200+wrms systems.... This setup was a HUGE improvement over stock though. If you do it right, dynamat the area, pull it from the sheet metal with a spacer, drill holes so the subs can perform, maybe even some acoustically transparent foam if your grilles rattle........then it should sound good. It just isn't completely "plug and play" like general speaker replacements as you know.

I don't know what characteristics would make them a bad match for the Monsoon system either...... IB 6.5" DVC 4-ohm subs that can handle 50-300+ wrms????



For Camaro, SVC would be simple since there are only 2 wires to begin with...but of course it's hard to find a 2 ohm impedance (there are some 3 ohm midbass drivers on ebay though).

For Firebird, stock came with DVC 4 ohms......who would simply try combining all the wires together?? That wouldn't really be "bridging" but I know what you mean...

Anyways...thats what makes the eu700 nice -- the Camaro wiring can easily be modded to replace the SVC "sub", and the Firebird DVC 4 ohms are simply replaced.

bene

iTrader: (16)

Sticky please...

HiTechGent

Yes that was about a year and a half ago. Maybe 2 years. I noticed ED assigned a new model number to these (7Kv.2), so it's possible they took the early feedback and made improvements. I'm glad they worked for you.

As for the lack of 2 ohm midbasses for the Camaro setup, that is not really a problem. There are several efficient 4 ohm component speakers and midbasses (in addition to the 3 ohm Audiobahn AMD60Q's) that are good fits for replacing the 2 ohm stockers. And no you don't lose volume just because the impedance is higher. Electrical power is not the same thing as sound power.

I replced my sails simply because I wanted to, not because they were blown. I tested my Pioneer TS-M7PRS midbasses while I was installing them and compared them to the stockers. If anything, my 4 ohm Pioneers were slightly louder than my 2 ohm stockers. They certainly sounded better.

fredmr39

Sensitivity/efficiency helps you maximize your available power...which isn't a good/accurate way to help determine subs loudness. Yes...better quality aftermarket components/subs/speakers at 4 ohm impedances will all generally sound louder/better.....but why not match the impedances if possible and get the most from your system? I'm not sure how you can say "no you don't lose volume just because the impedance is higher".......I hope that you made that comment as a general statement when replacing out speakers with 4 ohm ones, and not as "2 ohm speakers will play the same as 4 ohm speakers with the factory monsoon amp"... Regardless - 4 ohm speakers are getting less power, and if you want louder sound, then you need more power. I do not doubt that 4 ohm components sound better or slightly louder back there....but these speakers are far more than slightly louder.....