V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

EDIT
This project has been sold, and all of the Photobucket pictures deleted since I ran out of room.

After a successful Pacific Campaign (Datsun/Toyota/Mazda), it is now time to focus on the European front, Germany in particular.

I am looking to build a BMW E34 (5 series 1989-1995) with an LSX and T56. Here are my choices at this point, your .02 is welcome (it is noted that although people list similar cars for sale, they won't sell them if they don't return calls/emails , so it has boiled down to these two ) :

1) '89 535i, listed as a parts car.
Pros-

• Only 16 miles away! My car hauler behind my truck is like 10 MPG, so this adds into the cost of getting the car. I could probably limp this one home.
• Under $1K asking price (motor problems, but still operational).
• Car is less complicated than the newer model below.
• Clear title.

Cons-

• Car is an automatic, would require auto to manual swap- looks like a pedal assembly & a master cylinder (did this on the Supra).
• Car has sat outside for about a year, so the interior is not in real good shape. Cost of used seats/carpet/interior parts will add up to $500+.

2) 1995 525i, wrecked
Pros:

• One owner car, has been well maintained.
• Manual trans car, no swap needed for this.
• Mechanics and interior in good shape.
• Could be operated as a DD once body repairs made.
• Damaged parts are all bolt-on (fender/bumper). Car was totaled by ins. co. due to age. Current owner is still driving it.
• Around $1500.

Cons:

• It is about 300+ miles away.
• Salvage title, would need to be fixed & then inspected by DMV, which would ultimately result in a "rebuilt" title. I'm a little worried about this as far as insurance & later resale issues.
• More complex wiring due to later model.
• Needs about $400 in body parts plus paint.

I'm looking for any members that have experience with an E34 swap. Most of the swaps I read about are the 3 series. I emailed the builder from another thread back in March & am hoping to hear from them.

getready

dude where were you during the LSx supra debate? Sorry for offtopic, i'm going to watch this build

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

LSX Supra debate? Would that be the one where one guy asked about doing that and several others jumped in and it destabilized the entire message board by becoming a 2JZ vs LSX thread???

An astute member saved the day by creating a new thread where the debaters could exchange volleys w/o compromising the existing thread!

Back on topic, I looked at the 535i today & it is a barn car w/o the barn. Only $800, but it had a prior occupant under the hood w/ the motor- a rat, and no it was not a rat motor . Amazingly, the guy jump started it and it ran smooth as glass. The interior was not as bad as I expected from sitting outside. I think it would take a lot more than the difference between the two to get it up to snuff, so I'm going to pass on it.

EDIT
Deleted Photobucket albums of the two cars I had here since I did not buy either one.

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

What not an E30?
You want the larger sedan feel?

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

What I really want is the more room under the hood/less busted knuckles/contortion to fit stuff/do maintenance feel .

I have always liked the style of the E34 5-series, and of late there seem to be a few bargains to be had.

Schitzo

iTrader: (6)

More power to ya. Its been done before and fits quite well. The stock manifolds will work to

http://www.nash8503.com/Roys_520.html

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

As of September the silver/gray car is definitely out, the wrecked one is definitely in.

After extensive shopping, what I'd REALLY like to do is to build a stealth BMW E34 wagon with a turbo LM7/T56 , so what I may do is fix & resell the wrecked one. Apparently you can run a 10" wide wheel in the rear of these out of the box. The trick is finding a wagon with bad mechanicals in the right color scheme. Another drawback is that all wagons are automatics, so it would be another auto to manual swap. Finally, it looks like only <7K were imported for the 92-95 model years I'm looking at, so this makes them harder to find and priced higher than the sedans.

Whichever way this goes, it will be good to re-re-cycle the parts leftover from the 280Z/Supra/Rx7 swaps.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Bought a decent 525 Wagon today, it already has the wide 18" alloy wheels and good (265/35 rear, 10.7" section width) tires, a $1200 bonus!


Should have the wrecked sedan by next week so the swapout can commence.

Need to pickup a JY LM7 and then a T56 or other Tremec tranny. Preliminary research shows a good bit of room under the hood, so hopefully I can make use of the Garrett turbo & FMIC I had for the Supra project.

One sweet aspect of these is that the speedometer is driven off the differential, so no mods needed here unlike the past three swaps I've done.

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

Nice wagon! The best color too!
Looks clean from this pic.

Can't wait to see the boat anchor yanked from under the hood!

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

The deal fell through on the wrecked sedan, so it will be the wagon and needed auto to manual swap parts sourced elsewhere.

The good news is I have a lead on a fire damaged 6.0L truck motor for a real good price. Since I will be replacing most of the external stuff anyway, this is not too big of a deal. CR on the LQ4 is 9.25:1, which should be OK for around 6 psi of boost through a FMIC.

At least I will be able to sell off the motor & tranny (a weak spot on these cars) to recap a little of the cost of the swap.

Got the motor degreased and read up on the removal procedure. I have looked over several aspects of the setup. Have determined the following:

Cooling system:
The 525 radiator core is 20” W by 17” H by 1.25” thick and is a side tank setup (Rock auto online catalog). Inlet & outlets are both 1&9/16”. A 4th generation F-body radiator core is 24.81” W by 17.5” H by 1.00” thick. The CU954 Chevy truck/van radiator (used in prior Toyota/Mazda swaps) is 25.5” W x 17.25” H x 1.25” thick. Use of the OEM radiator will allow direct fit on hoses as well as another Lincoln MK8 fan setup (used on Toyota swap).

May need/want to run an oil cooler due to turbo setup.

Transmission:
? as to firewall and tunnel clearance. Will have to fabricate crossmember using existing BMW part and new metal.

Driveshaft:
Will need to obtain OA length once engine & trans are in place. BMW rear u-joint is a Neapco 1-0431, with 1.900 lock up and .947 cap diameter. This is the same u-joint as is used on the 2nd generation RX7. Will need to measure flange for differential & buy or have made adapter for common 1310/1330 u-joint.

Differential
OEM BMW, with speed sensor.

Exhaust
May run single 3” or use OEM for time being. Key issue will be mounting of turbo underhood (room & plumbing).

Belt drive & AC
BMW uses 6 ribs for alt/WP/PS, 5 ribs for AC on 10PA17C compressor, Gen 3 uses 6 ribs for alt/WP/PS, 4 ribs for AC, 87-92 Supra uses 10PA17C compressor with 4 rib pulley.

Can possibly fabricate adapter blocks to mount BMW unit onto Gen 3 block. Both compressors mount lower passenger side. Can possibly use 4 rib belt to drive BMW compressor, or add Supra clutch/pulley to BMW comp. Belt drive w/ 4 ribs on 5 rib pulley should be OK if aligned correctly, saves a lot of $ in hose & wiring changeover.

Note- contrary to character, I threw out two Supra compressors when I got rid of my parts car after the Supra swap. I usually don't throw stuff away, but I had to move!

Alternator
Both use 6 rib pulley. Rock Auto shows 80, 90 and 140 amp units. GM unit is 110A. All appear to be similar type units w/ similar mounting points. My car has a 140 on the tag.

Can possibly mount BMW alt onto Gen 3 block and reuse BMW wiring (saves $ on buying alt).

PS Pump
Both use 6 rib pulley. 1994 BMW 525iT uses PS pump for self leveling suspension (SLS).

Can possibly adapt BMW pump onto Gen 3 motor. Will save $ & time fabricating hoses, also need to retain this pump for SLS function.

Fuel pump
Due to turbo addition, pump output must be upgraded. OEM pump is rated at 51 psi. Shop manual delivery spec (@ 43.5 psi) is 875cc/30 seconds, or 1750cc/minute or 105000cc/hour. This equates to 105 LPH. Walbro pumps are capable of 255 LPH.

As of this update, I've located and paid for an intake, injectors, and a MAF. I already have the turbo/related parts, FMIC, car/truck/C5 exhaust manifolds, and 1998 PCM. Still many more things to get.

If you know anyone with any of this stuff for sale, please have them contact me:

• 1998 engine wiring harness- prefer a manual, but can convert an auto. Damaged harness OK.

It will be great (savings of time & $) if I can adapt the BMW accessories onto the Gen 3 block. From the parts house pics I have looked over, it appears that this is plausible. Won't know for sure until everything is out & apart.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

I've been JY shopping and have found another L33 5.3L for $850 and an LQ4 6.0L with "light burn" damage for $625. I don't see the burn damage as being an issue, since I will be replacing the complete intake setup anyway.

I like the idea of the L33, since when I looked up the weights I found the BMW M50 is 427 pounds, the L33 is 430, and the LQ4 is 530. The turbo would add some more weight up front as well.

After initial research, I think the best bang for the buck will be to use the L33 and swap a set of LQ4 heads onto it to drop the compression down to 8.9:1 or so (stock is 9.9:1). While I'm at it, I can throw in a turbo-friendly cam and some decent valvesprings and pushrods and some ARP head studs. I should be able to get some $ out of the L33 heads, since they are early LS6 production heads.

One issue I have found is that there is no inexpensive way to mount the turbo to the motor AND retain the PS and AC (the BMW uses the PS pump for the self-leveling rear suspension). Most of the setups I've seen here mount it in front of the motor, requiring radiator relocation, which I don't want to do. I found a F**d place that sells very reasonably priced parts for single and twin turbos. As I found out when building the RX7, the 302 port spacing is very close to the LSX, and in fact some people have actually made F**d headers fit the LSX heads by cutting off the mounting flanges and using GM flanges. If I buy a set of the single mount headers and down pipe, I should be able to do the same thing and have the turbo just about where I want it, ie the passenger front of the engine bay. As with the Supra, real estate is going to be tight here, but from the looks of the headers, this is about as close as I will come w/o a lot of $ custom $ work.

Updates to follow.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

I have found another 2005 L33 at a JY & they are delivering it to a nearby town for free . Had to pay $50 more for this one than the one I got for the RX7, though, $850 . It has 39K miles.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

I lucked into an $850 39K mile 2005 L33 5.3L motor. This is the same one in my RX7. The JY even delivered it for free. I have attached a few pics of this as well as the wagon w/o the hood (tough job to do by yourself, my buddy the engine hoist held it up while I worked the bolts w/ .00001" clearance out).

I have paid for a pair of LQ4 heads, LS6 springs, 7.425" moly pushrods, and a GTO oil pan here, and a Z06 cam elsewhere, as well as a lot of other incidental parts. Still researching/negotiating turbo mounting and the T56/FW/Clutch setup.

I'll also be changing out the balancer when I do the head/cam swap since I'll be running a Corvette balancer to keep everything as close to the block as possible, as I did with the RX7.

I'm stumped at this point on the driveshaft to diff adapter. I'm hoping to get the shaft out this week and measure the diff flange. The BMW specs show this car has a 4.10:1 rear ratio. Lots of tire-frying fun to be had there even with 10.7" section width tires out back . I'm also looking into upgrading the diff to a V8 or 7 series BMW model for more durability, but this is apparently all new ground.

Gen3Benz

iTrader: (4)

mmmm, aluminum....sweet deal too.
List of mods will include !ferrous block

Steve VanS

iTrader: (1)

Lots of guys looking for your 6-cyl BMW engine on www.bimmerforums.com and www.r3vlimited.com. Selling it should get you some $$$ for all of the stuff you still have to buy for your swap

Garret & Steve almost done with E30-LS1 swap aka 357is

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Thanks for the heads up. I'm always glad to sell extra stuff I dodn't need & make room/income for more stuff I do need! I know the auto trans is a weak point with these cars based on several I looked at, so it should be worth something to someone somewhere since it worked good when I tested the car.

I got the driveshaft, exhaust, air intake box, and radiator/shroud pulled today. Soaked the exhaust bolts in WD40 and they all came loose with minimal effort. Good thing I am doing the swap- I found one of the cooling fan bolts had backed out. At some point w/ continued use, the fan would have worked loose & fallen off.

At least that's what I'm telling Mrs. Builder .

One oddity is the battery being under the backseat. I know GM did this on the 2000+ Bonnevilles. I had to pull pretty hard to get the seat bottom loose.

Looks like the 6 bolt CV joint on the diff will be a challenge to convert to a 1310/1330 U-joint. I'm going to upgrade to a larger 7 series LSD anyways, but I suspect it has a similar input flange.

Another oddity is the muffler is actually curved to go around the spare tire well. I like to keep swap exhausts looking like OEM, so this could be a challenge. I used a 3" in / dual outlet on the Supra and was thinking the same type of thing would work here.

It was great to have a car without any rust under the floor. I had to put in new metal on my 280Z and Supra, and patch a small hole on the RX7. The BMW looks really good and I'm sure it has been taken care of.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Now that our heat wave is over (for the time being, anyway), I am able to spend more time in the garage.

I got my manual pedal assembly today. I looked under the dash & it looks like I can leave the mounting bracket in place & simply replace the brake pedal/add the clutch pedal. That's the easy part. Under the hood, there is a bunch of stuff where the clutch master will need to go. I'm planning on running a Tilton or other aftermarket here since I found with my past swaps the OEM masters were too small.

I got the front bumper cover & trim off so as to measure for an intercooler. It looks like I will need to either cut out the lower portion of the stock bumper cover or add an aftermarket panel, which I would rather do for looks and more room.

Here are some 640x480 pics:

Pedal assembly:


Old exhaust (curved muffler at top of pic) :


Front end w/ bumper cover removed #1:


#2:


#3:


Doing research on FMICs shows that I will probably not use the small one I have (24x3x6 core). It looks like the old ATI style should work well here, and fit in fairly well in front of the condenser/under the bumper reinforcement.

After exhaustive research on passenger side high turbo mounting on the LSx motor, I found the best deal to be had is actually from a F**d motor! There is a F**d place that makes a set of headers/crossover/downpipe for $750. Similar setups for the LSx go for around $2000! The trick here is to cut off the header flanges & weld on GM ones. I found out about this trick on the V8RX7 website. They are called "poorboy" headers and several members there have done this with good results. I am planning on ordering a set after I get the motor in place so I can see how much room I have to work with.

I'm hoping I can get the motor & trans out tomorrow. The BMW sems to have lots of hidden fasteners. The shop manual says to pull the trans & then the motor, but after looking this over I decided instead to drop the rear crossmember and swaybar so the trans should fit through (trans to motor uses PITB reverse Torx bolts). This way, I think I can pull both with my engine leveller and hoist.

I have now paid for a GTO pan & parts with some 317 heads from a member here. He threw in the GTO mount brackets and a water pump since he found a crack in the pan after I paid him. As of tonight, I have a good lead on a T56 with the parts I need for this swap. It will need to be shipped, so I'm hopeful this will work out OK. Lots-o-labor and a few more parts and I should be good to go.

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Finished up disconnecting about 1,000 things and got the oil pressure, water (gauge) temp, oil level, and starter wires tagged. I then got the combo lifted out w/o too much trouble.



I now have a nice large hole to slip the L33 & T56 into. BTW, one of our excellent forum members here had just what I needed and made me a great deal on a T56 w/ shifter & clutch! Good to be over that hurdle. It seems like the T56s have appreciated while the cars have depreciated LOL.

"Empty" engine bay:






I'm definitely going to have to cut some wires from the bundle. The fuel iinjectors & coils have no plugs to disconnect from the harness like the LSx harnesses do (at least if they do I can't find them). Interestingly, many of the harness/sensor connectors use what looks to be the same connector as an F-body fuel injector.

Got the L33 on the engine stand and wheeled it over next to another Chevy motor in my shop:

40 years of progress, 323 vs. 164 CID, water jackets, and two more cylinders.

The shifter is also out:


It turns out BMW like Toyota makes their cars to be either MT or AT, so the hole for the shifter is there. Not much room for error, and it seems pretty far back (34" +/-) from where the bellhousing was. A T56 is 29.4" back from the BH, so I hope the T56 sits further rearward. I also noted the car has numerous sets of threaded holes on the underside for trans mounts. Must have been a large variety of options.

As it turns out, the car does not have the hydraulic rear suspension, so it may be easier to run a C5 PS pump & make up a line to connect to the BMW gear than to try & adapt the BMW pump to the Chevy block. I did this on the Supra & it works well. I'm also thinking a C5 alternator may be a possibility since this is a one wire (plus power output) alternator, same as the '98 harness I will use. The most excellent GM Parts Supplier Dal Slabaugh is once again providing numerous parts, among them another C5 accessory bracket, so all accessories will tuck in close.

autophile

I am in the very early stages of this conversion.

Slowly sourcing parts and prepping the engine and car. No forced induction here, just ported heads and a cam to take advantage of the airflow.

I have an e34 parts car and a Q45 parts car sitting around. (I *was* contemplating the Nissan engine in the E34, but cooler heads prevailed.) While the engine won't be involved, the LSD diff from the Q45 may find it's way into the picture if it makes sense.

Currently I have an LS1 out of a 99 Firebird, 5.3L iron block truck motor with wiring harness, accessories, and PCM. Oh, yeah, and a T56 trans.

My car is a daily driver 525i auto, so I'll be doing an auto to manual swap at the same time, too.

Good luck with your swap. I hope to follow in your footsteps soon!

V8 Supra Builder

iTrader: (37)

Sounds good, I'm sure you can piggyback off what I'm doing.

I got the manual pedal assembly installed today, still need the clutch master & hose. This is a weird (to me anyway) setup. The clutch master is inside the car (didn't think there was room for it outside the firewall), and the supply hose runs from the brake master cylinder to it. I need to pick up the grommets that go through the firewall. I am considering using a US Brake or Tilton 7/8" MC here since they both have the holes for side mounting. The BMW one is 3/4", and I'm not sure how much fluid it moves- I tried a stock Toyota master on the Supra & it didn't have enough for the TKO slave, and I know the Mazda and Datsun both have oversized masters in them. The master has a loop on the end where it hooks to the clutch pedal (image attached). I think I could make one out of two, but may try the stock unit first.



I'm also looking at the smaller diameter 540i (V8 E34 model) brake booster.
EDIT- Forget that crap. Hydroboost is the way to go. I used the setup off a 1997 Cobra. Details and pics later in the thread!

The seller of the car told me it has a leak at the reservoir, so this needs to be resealed anyway.

Also dove into wiring today. What a lot of spaghetti! I found the BMW DME (fuel/ignition computer) is very similar to the GM PCM. I went through the wiring (I labeled all the connectors when I removed them, my little label maker has definitely paid for itself after three projects with it- I've used up two tape cassettes). I kept the oil pressure, water temp (for the gauge not the DME), the low oil level, and some power (battery & switched) wires. The GM PCM should fit behind the box for the BMW unit (EDIT- it does )- it is too big to fit inside. This will keep it in the same place as an F-body so the harness should fit OK. My goal is to have the PCM interface with the BMW wiring so that everything works.

For future reference, I compared the pinouts for the DME vs the 1998 PCM I will use. I'll upload them as a JPG file to Photobucket & update here later.

EDIT
Draft form, still need more info:


I've also worked out a wiring diagram for the two speed Lincoln Mark 8 fan I got ($47 shipped from a JY in Ohio!). It fits the core of the radiator extremely well, minimal trimming will be needed. I also pulled the front pusher fan from the AC condenser- it was packed w/ grime where the fan had been. I'm surprised the car didn't overheat. I don't think I will put it back in since the MK 8 fan works so well.

EDIT- my fan is a single speed, but I'm using the BMW condenser fan as a second fan. Details later in the thread!

The BMW DME controls the fuel pump by grounding the relay. In lieu of a bunch of extra wires, I drew this diagram to have the PCM control it:

EDIT- I did something else by locating a new relay in the backseat by the battery and running a large wire under the car to the fuel pump connector. Details later in the thread!

I'm planning on running 12 gauge wire to the pump, a Walbro 255 high pressure.

I've also rethought the accessory situation. What I'm planning now is to pickup a C5 PS pump and make up a line to the BMW steering box and also to use a C5 AC compressor I have leftover. It looks like the fittings may bolt up, but I won't be able to tell until I get the old one apart. Still up in the air on the alternator mainly due to the cost of a C5 unit.

I hope to degrease the motor bay tomorrow, but the love bugs have been so bad here lately it is not worth going outside. One step forward, one step to the side.