JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I've been doing some research into air ride systems for the front of our cars lately and this looks like the most promising setup yet so I started a thread just for this kit. A universal air bag designed to slip over a shock or strut. Looks to be about $170ea. So far it looks like these Universal Aero Sports will work with the stock, Bilstein, Koni or pretty much any of our shocks that are under 2.1" in diameter.

Universal Air (UVAIR) Aero Sport Single Convoluted Air Bag
Designed to Slip Over Your Factory / Performance Strut





barelylegalfabrication dot com/uvaerosportdetailspage.htm

Straight from Universal Air Suspension Company.
The UVAIR Aero Sport: Designed to slip over your Factory/Performance Struts or Shocks. (Pressure tube must be less then 2.14 in Diameter)

4.0" Compressed
9.25" Extended (The last inch or so is very difficult to use. So that's 4" of usable stroke. The shock only has 3.5" of stroke.)
5.875" Diameter

Anyone know the diameter of the Koni shock?
Nevermind, I know it's the same as the stock DeCarbons, which are under 2" in diameter which means these will fit. I'm not so sure my Ground Control sleeves would fit, though. So what I would need to do is get some metal pipe that can slide tightly over the shock body and weld a metal plate on top to act as a lower bag mount. The pipe will butt against the snap ring on the shock, just like stock. The height can then be controlled by the length of the pipe.

Since most folks don't know all the details of how the shocks fit together, here is a pic of how the factory lower shock mount fits onto the shock.


Here are where the grooves are on the Koni SA. Note it has 2 grooves for 2 different heights. Stock and about a 3/4" drop.


Here is a PDF file about installation on a strut which is basically the same as our shock.
Universal Aero Sport Install Guide All it needs is a flat plate on both ends.

It's a completely internally sealed bag so air won't leak around your shock. The shock body will be exposed to help disipate heat, but the shock rod will be covered. This looks like the solution for us. If the steering response is slow, just add some rebound to quicken it up. We may end up using a bit more rebound then we would with say a 500lb spring, but I doubt it would ride too harsh simply due to the way the air spring works. I have my Koni SA shocks at about half the rebound adjustment so there is quite a bit more adjustment left to tighten things up. I believe these particular bags will have a higher springrate than the other bag/shock assemblies due to their smaller air volume which means a higher spring rate which means better performance.

What do you guys think of the potential of these?

EDIT:
So for a Super Low Buck setup that you can adjust from inside the car:

2 Aero Sport Bags with mount kit $400
2 Rear bags $120-$140
8 3/8" electric valves are $220
2 dual needle guages $50-$60
1 3 gallon chrome tank $50
1 Viair 380 compressor 200psi $184
1 pressure switch $20
75ft of 3/8 air line $28

This adds up to $1,102 bucks. That just leaves the cost of the fittings. What do 3/8" fittings typically cost?

A Bare Bones kit may consist of just the 4 bags with each one using an inflation valve. I guess you could add the guages just so you can watch over things. So that's like 600 bucks. Not bad for a smoother ride plus you can adjust the ride height. Not bad at all.

If I'm leaving something out, please let me know.

BTW, if you using the stock shock, you might consider these AOS (AirOver Shocks) units for $540pr.


I don't know what shock they use, but they have an adjustment **** on them. They should be able to just bolt on. I was looking at the AOS specs and they say the max diameter can get to 7". That would be a pretty tight fit. They might fit, but it's hard to say.

EDIT, new info on AOS bags:
OK, I got off the phone with Air Lift.
The max bag diameter is 7" when it's fully compressed.
Max PSI is 180.
Max load is 2200lb.
The shock is a high pressure twin tube design made by Rancho. The **** has 9 positions and effects both bump and rebound. Lower numbers are softer, higher numbers are firmer.

They have not tested them on our cars.
They are measured by the bottom of the threads on the stud to the center of the bottom eye.
Stock shock is about 21" extended, so with a 2" stud extension on the AOS shock, their longest model should be the one that fits.

I'm actually iffy on whether the AOS will fit properly.

You could always slip the Aero Sports on a set of Bilsteins. Those are really good shocks, ride nice and control body movement. They are cheaper than the Koni SA's. Cost $100ea. for the front's.
(Koni SA run $260ea)

So $540 for the Rancho units which might fit compared to the Bilstein Aero Sport combo for about $60 more. It requires a little bit of fab work, but I'm more confident it will fit and function properly.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

(This is a radical re-edit of post 2 and is all new stuff. It just took me 150 posts to figure it all out. )

Here's how you mount these things on a stock shock and a Bilstein or Koni would be the same:





This is the stock bumpstop.


Pop the stock bumpstop out of the gold housing and replace it with one of these.


Get a piece of heavy guage pipe and cut a section like this:






Booya! Air springs for the DeCarbon.

The pipe acts like a spacer to make sure the bag clears the upper A-arm. The flat disc that comes with the bag gets welded to the pipe and the pipe gets welded to the empty gold cup.

Then you take a much better bumpstop like the Koni 40mm and you slide it onto the shock shaft and then slide this upper spacer over it and bolt everything up just like stock.

You'll need to cut a hole for the air line to fit up top, but other than that, it should work just like the pics. I'm not sure what diameter pipe would be best, but that can be figured out once I have all the parts.

So it's practically bolt on. Just take the 3 pieces that need to be welded down to your local muffler shop and they can do that easily.

As far as raw components, there is a kit you can buy. This is the kit for struts and it includes a bearing. There is another kit that does not have any bearings for a shock mount and it's a little cheaper.



I don't know if that section of pipe would work with my mount idea, but it just might.

VIP1

Does that mean no welding? If so, then I'm definitely interested. I have never welded before (I'd like to learn though) and the thought of welding on shocks sounds like a bad idea to me (would probably damage the fluid and valving).

SIK02SS

iTrader: (11)

and could blow up in your face given the extreme high heat and gas in the shock

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

You guys aren't thinking straight. No, you don't weld anything to the shock.
You will probably need to have the lower plate welded to the pipe section so it doesn't tip over. You can take just those 2 pieces to a welder and have it done. Even a muffler shop can do that. Then it slides over the shock and rests on that snapring. That little ring is what holds the springs onto the shock and will hold the airbag as well.

It may not even need welding. They may just sit fine once the weight of the vehicle is on them.

Look at page 4 and 5 in the install guide. It has a picture of what the lower spring mount should look like. It doesn't mention welding, it just says the lower mount needs to be made. I'm assuming the 2 pieces should be welded together and that would be simple.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Does anyone know about air bag spring rates? The rate is not really progressive is it? More like exponential, I believe. Kind of like the cellular polyurethene bumpstops I measured. The rate increases slowly and first and then starts to ramp up. At least that's what I'm thinking just based on squishing a balloon or something similar. I know the bag shape and it's stiffness is a key factor as well.

The spring rate is still the one unknown. Once you install the bags and adjust the pressure to the ride you want your kind of stuck with whatever spring rate you happen to get. Or are you?

I can think of a couple of tricks to make the bags stiffer.

1. One is to use a long progressive bumpstop.
2. Another would be to have less air in the bag by displacement. We may be able to inject some RTV silicone in through the air nozzle and let it build up at the base. Once it cures, the bag will need more pressure to get to the same ride height as before and that means it will be stiffer.
3. Another thought would be to add a steel band around the center of it to control the shape of the bag. In fact, we could make the band somewhat tight to give the bag a tapered waistline which would reduce the air volume as well as control it's bulging. I think we could make the rate pretty stiff with this technique.

Combined with the Koni shocks with the adjustable rebound I don't see why we couldn't get really good handling out of this air spring setup.

98boxer

iTrader: (7)

Would you be able to lower and raise and front end of the car with this set up. Say your about to go over some speed bumps, put air in them and they lift the front end so the under carriage doesn't hit the bump? Or is this air bag just to stiffen the ride up front?

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

It replaces the spring. It's an air spring. Yes, you can raise or lower the car.

If I do these I will also do the rear so I can raise the whole car for steep driveways and such. The front spring setup is what keeps most folks away on these cars. Air Ride sales a front shock/bag setup for $1000pr and I found another company that sales something similar for like $550pr. The problem with them is the shocks are unknown, but Sam Strano thinks they are the QA1 shocks which are not a good design. This universal kit is a much cheaper alternative that lets you use the shocks you already have. This saves you money and offers better performance.

As with any air bag setup you can just set the air pressures and leave them or you can add a compressor and a small storage tank so you always have air to raise the car. I like these digital controllers that will automatically set the car down when parked and raise it back up when you crank the engine. What you do is set your ride height and have the suspension aligned at that level. You can then raise or lower it when you need to, but for normal driving you put it back to the set ride height. This is all automatic with a controller. If you don't want to spend the money on a controller it can be controlled manually. You would just note the pressure on the front and rear gauges at your set ride height and when you raise or lower the car you set the pressure back to where it was.

Here is a general guide to air springs.
Cool link to air spring design. Part 1.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_3034/article.html

Part 2.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_3035/article.html

The expensive bag/shock assemblies generally look like this.


This is what a TA looks like with the air bags at their low position.
I really love the stance an air assisited vehicle can get when parked. Ragtop Rat's car.

aaronbetzner

iTrader: (2)

That car looks sick.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I want some of that sickness as well.

Here's another TA.





Sweet video of air ride mercedes. Now this is how I want mine to operate. Slow and quiet going up and down. Very smooth and classy, not like the kids today making their car jump and crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcVj_5Ev6bk

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

Doesn't anyone else besides me like the way the stock stance looks?

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

What everyone calls the 4x4 look or the Z71 package?

I sure don't. It makes these cars look boxy (mustang boxy) instead of smooth and sleak.

slammed1500

iTrader: (1)

have u look at airride tech.

z28bryan

iTrader: (7)

No way! That stock stance creates an aura of evil.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

That's the first one I looked at, but they cost so much, plus the shocks are not valved for these cars. Then I saw the ones from Air Over Shocks for about half the cost of the Air Ride, but the same shock issue exists. After seeing a few universal strut bag kits, it looks like they are the best choice since I can use my high performance Koni SA shocks. The UVAIR Aero Sports seem to be the best design of that style kit so that's why I focused this thread on it.

3.4camaro

iTrader: (1)

As per your sig, what "unique" mods have you done to your ride? I've never actually seen installed pics of your ideas, just ideas, then the thread dies.

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

I made a seperate thread of some of the completed ideas.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...15#post8046315

Sometimes you come up with ideas that you later don't like, sometimes money is a factor, sometimes time is a factor. Sometimes ideas overlap or don't work well together. I try and put these ideas out there on the forums to see if people have any thoughts on improving them and sometimes I just need to write them down somewhere so I don't forget them.

My car has been in the shop for over 2 months, long story, but the bottom line is I got a big check from my Insurance company so I will be moving forward on some of my ideas. Plus I will buy a cheap second car to get around in which will allow me to tear the TA down for more extensive mods. I've never been able to do that before as it was my daily driver and had to stay on the road.

3.4camaro

iTrader: (1)

Rock on dude. I like the tips.

slammed1500

iTrader: (1)

tell me more

JasonWW

iTrader: (2)

Check out this thread and pay attention to what Sam Strano says. He's the local shock guru around here.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/541244-air-rides.html

If your not into carving the corners, then it might not be a big deal. I'm sure the Air Ride Shocks are fine for a cruiser.