How can the higher rated Firehawks and SS only be marketing?

[oddwraith]

I'm not clear on how a 01-02 Firehawk T/A or Z28 SS produce rating from 335-355hp(late '02) over the typical 305 hp of T/As and Z28s. The former do have lids and slp exhauts (slp three inch over the axle dual duals) etc so how could they NOT have anymore horsepower or better numbers. I've been told this and I'm not sure if it's true. I know Ls1's are underrated. But once you add a lid and exhaust etc how could that not add more hp? Maybe not much more but some, wouldn't it? I'm still new to all of this but perhaps i'm one of the guys that bought the marketing ploy. I was sort of surprised when I heard someone claiming that there was little to NO difference in performance from a SLP vehicle vs. a non one. I'm happy either way, just wondering is all.

[97ramsst]

Originally Posted by oddwraith

I'm not clear on how a 01-02 Firehawk T/A or Z28 SS produce rating from 335-355hp(late '02) over the typical 305 hp of T/As and Z28s. The former do have lids and slp exhauts (slp three inch over the axle dual duals) etc so how could they NOT have anymore horsepower or better numbers. I've been told this and I'm not sure if it's true. I know Ls1's are underrated. But once you add a lid and exhaust etc how could that not add more hp? Maybe not much more but some, wouldn't it? I'm still new to all of this but perhaps i'm one of the guys that bought the marketing ploy. I was sort of surprised when I heard someone claiming that there was little to NO difference in performance from a SLP vehicle vs. a non one. I'm happy either way, just wondering is all.

Plain 02 TAs made 310HP. 2001 Firehawks make 335HP. I would asume those 25hp are mostly from the dual dual exhaust (and a few from the ram air). 2002 Firehawks made 345HP with the addition of the Blackwing lid. So the that stands to reason a real good lid and good exhaust are good for about 35hp. That sounds about right to me. Whats so confusing about that?

[waldershrek]

Not every SS or Firehawk came with those options. Most were appearance only modifications (hood, spoiler, wheels, grille, badging, floor mats, dash plaque, key chains, portfolio, car cover etc....). Some seem to think SLP inflates their HP gains and thats where the argument started. But yes, the cars that came with SLP exhaust and Blackwing lid should have more HP. How much more I couldn't tell you, it's a hotly debated topic.

[oddwraith]

Originally Posted by 97ramsst

Plain 02 TAs made 310HP. 2001 Firehawks make 335HP. I would asume those 25hp are mostly from the dual dual exhaust (and a few from the ram air). 2002 Firehawks made 345HP with the addition of the Blackwing lid. So the that stands to reason a real good lid and good exhaust are good for about 35hp. That sounds about right to me. Whats so confusing about that?

Well actually, what I was confused about was not the hp numbers associated with each model and which year. What was confusing me, as stated above, was that many people say that there was NO difference in real world numbers (like horsepower @the wheels). I didn't understand that. But now I see that other post after yours explains to me that not ALL of those models came with lids and exhausts. So that answers why not all of them produce the same "real world" figures. Thanks though.

[oddwraith]

Originally Posted by waldershrek

Not every SS or Firehawk came with those options. Most were appearance only modifications (hood, spoiler, wheels, grille, badging, floor mats, dash plaque, key chains, portfolio, car cover etc....). Some seem to think SLP inflates their HP gains and thats where the argument started. But yes, the cars that came with SLP exhaust and Blackwing lid should have more HP. How much more I couldn't tell you, it's a hotly debated topic.

Thanks man. See I thought ALL hawks came with the lids and exhaust, and that only the "appearance" options (and suspension and differential) were options you could choose. Just like that fact that all 01 and 02 T/As came with ls6 intakes. Now I think I see why having a hawk doesn't necessarily make it faster/more powerful. Depends what you have on it. Thanks again.

[The Batman]

all hawks came with a lid, hood, exhaust, springs, wheels, etc. the SS was just like a factory ws6 trans am basically

[97ramsst]

Originally Posted by The Batman

all hawks came with a lid, hood, exhaust, springs, wheels, etc. the SS was just like a factory ws6 trans am basically

Not all Hawks came with Springs...that was optional, but your right all came with exhaust and lid. All Firehawks actually went to SLP to be modded but not all SSs did either.

[PontiacFan]

All did NOT come with a lid.
The only cars that received a lid adder were the mid-to late 2002's that got the Donaldson Blackwing package.

[97ramsst]

Originally Posted by PontiacFan

All did NOT come with a lid.
The only cars that received a lid adder were the mid-to late 2002's that got the Donaldson Blackwing package.

Was the Blackwing lid optional on 02 Firehawks ( iknow some early cars didnt get them but I thought they would send you one if your 02 was delivered without one)? I have had two and both had Blackwing lids and its not listed as an option on the door or on the SLP window stickers. I thought they were part of the upgrade.

Also did older LS1 Hawks have Ram Air lids or plain TA lids and lower boxes?

[oddwraith]

Originally Posted by 97ramsst

Was the Blackwing lid optional on 02 Firehawks ( iknow some early cars didnt get them but I thought they would send you one if your 02 was delivered without one)? I have had two and both had Blackwing lids and its not listed as an option on the door or on the SLP window stickers. I thought they were part of the upgrade.

Also did older LS1 Hawks have Ram Air lids or plain TA lids and lower boxes?

Well actually,


good question though.

[Rapter34]

I think the main reason people say there is no "real world" differance, is that a lid and exhaust are very easy mods and that nerly everyone on this sit has them. I think there point is that the difference in SS, WS6, firehawk is more apperance than anything.

[oddwraith]

Originally Posted by PontiacFan

All did NOT come with a lid.
The only cars that received a lid adder were the mid-to late 2002's that got the Donaldson Blackwing package.

Well mine's a 2001 and rated (rated-hah!) at 335hp. Over the axle dual dual and i THOUGHT it had a lid. How can i tell. Apparently it has a special slp composite hood/cowell adding "functionality" to the ram-air system. I then added a K&N filter as opposed to the "blackwing" high flow sytem. See check 'em out!

http://www.slponline.com/browse_list.asp

[oddwraith]

Originally Posted by Rapter34

I think the main reason people say there is no "real world" differance, is that a lid and exhaust are very easy mods and that nerly everyone on this sit has them. I think there point is that the difference in SS, WS6, firehawk is more apperance than anything.

YES true. But stock for stock (NO mods at all) the firehawks and ss's come off the line with a little extra punch. I didn't have to go grab a lid and an exhaust right away to throw 20 extra ponies on her. That is what I didn't understand when people would say that there is NO difference. Of course there is, otherwise why bother getting a lid and an exhaust like THEY did? Thanks for the replys everyone.

[YellowToy/A]

The ratings are all on an engine dyno. If you dyno at the wheels they will still be in the 300s or high 200s. The loss to the wheels is 15 to 20%. Do the math. You can call it any thing you want. and they do.

[12secSS]

Originally Posted by 97ramsst

Not all Hawks came with Springs...that was optional, but your right all came with exhaust and lid. All Firehawks actually went to SLP to be modded but not all SSs did either.

Just to inform you, all SSs (1998-2002) went to SLP ... regardless if it was ordered with Y2Y options or not. GM shipped the SS to SLP with "throw away" hoods and spoilers, to be replaced with the SS hood and spoiler. GM did install the 10-spokes on all Camaros headed to SLP.

[davered00ss]

Strap them down to the dyno, and there is not a lot of difference. The 01/02 cars do normally dyno higher than the 98-00's do. Reguardless of T/A, Firehawk, Z28,SS or 345 package. My car dyno'd stock 306rwhp the same dyno and same day as an 02 345 package SS did 312rwhp. LS1's were under-rated from GM.

[PontiacFan]

Originally Posted by 97ramsst

Was the Blackwing lid optional on 02 Firehawks ( iknow some early cars didnt get them but I thought they would send you one if your 02 was delivered without one)? I have had two and both had Blackwing lids and its not listed as an option on the door or on the SLP window stickers. I thought they were part of the upgrade.

Also did older LS1 Hawks have Ram Air lids or plain TA lids and lower boxes?

"jakt"
Yea, you won't find it listed individually because the lid was part of the '345hp' option pkg on the 2002 models. It is not listed as an airlid adder option. Yes, some cars got the lid after delivery to the dealer also.

Earlier (Read 99-01) Firehawk's did not receive any special lid from the factory. They used the plain GM lid pkg that originally came with the car. (That's on the late 4th gen related cars as noted.)

Early 4th gen cars did get a special airbox to go with the matching hood. But that's a completely different animal not referenced in this thread.
"unjakt"

[EchoMirage]

i really hope youre not taking the factory HP rating as gospel. we all know that LS1 fbodies......ALL LS1 F-BODIES.....were underrated from the factory. simply because GM wanted the vette to have the highest rated horsepower. note i said RATED. ill post a pic of a dyno done in 1998, with an LS1 TA and vette, both showroom stock. youll see the TA had more real wheel power then the vette. why? because f-bodies were underrated in HP, and the vette's rating was more realistic (at the crank), and lost more due to IRS.

everyone here who has owned their car or been on this board long enough knows bone stock 02 TAs and camaros make anywhere from 300-315hp at the wheels. yet they were rated at 315-325 from the factory? so they only lost what, 10 horse to the wheels?

i can bet you if you dynoed stock 02 hawks with WS6s/SS, youll see maybe, maybe a handfull of horse differance. and ill make the same bet given exact same conditions and drivers, all 3 cars will run within a tenth at the strip, more or less.

[EnfuegoZ28]

In the Hot Rod issue shown above they tested a Corvette, Camaro SS, WS6, and a Mustang Cobra. As stated before the Vette, SS, and WS6 all dynoed around the same rear wheel horsepower. GM put the same LS1 engine in the Vettes and F-bodies, but advertised them with different hp ratings.

[mike13]

I think the reason the 01,02 Fbodies dyno higher is because they come with a Z06 intake manifold.