Watts Link--F-body (it's real and we're taking pre-orders)

[Sam Strano]

I'm now happy to announce we can take pre-orders on a Watts Link for all 82-02 F-bodies with stock diamter axle tubes. There is a version for bigger axle tubes (suck as 12-bolts, etc.) in the works.

They should be ready to ship in approximately 2-3 weeks. The unit is made by Fays2 who has been doing these for Mustangs for more than a few years. I not only trust the unit and have had all my questions answered, but will be putting one on my car as soon as possible. Jim and I have had a few discussions about the design and I'm happy to say he addressed my main concerns regarding approximate roll-center height. I wanted to make sure we could start @ stock height and adjust down as the owner sees fit. That has been done and implimented in this unit.

Details, specs and a photo on a 4th gen can be seen here: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=67&ModelID=7



Price is $650 Plus shipping. Shipping costs will normally not exceed $30 in most cases.

Fays2 own website has the pricing set lower, but after a discussion with Jim Fay, he informed me the prices are incorrect and will be changed.

[hpjunky98]

How are the links mounted to the axle tubes?

Great to see your supplying these now. Any chance of a GP?

[FadedSS]

are these fully adjustable for those of us who are lowered??

[leadfoot4]

THANKS A LOT!!!





I upgraded to 17" wheels and much wider tires this year, and although I custom fabbed a panhard bar that was close to the correct length 10 years ago, when I originally lowered the car, I bought an adjustable arm a couple of months ago, just to get the centering "dead on". I would have been very inclined to buy the Watts link, had I known it would have been on the market this soon.....

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by hpjunky98

How are the links mounted to the axle tubes?

Great to see your supplying these now. Any chance of a GP?

Jim is very adamant about everyone selling for the same price. So, no--there won't be a GP on these as far as I can tell.

The links mount to the axle via clamps around the axle tube.

[hpjunky98]

Ok, so just friction keeps them on correct? I guess I shouldn't be one to criticize, since Ive never designed one of these before, It just seems a bit insecure at first glance. I'm sure with the number of Kits that Fays2 has sold that there won't be issues if properly installed. Just trying to get a feel for the product.

[Sam Strano]

It's a clamp load, and remember that normally all the lateral load is put only through some sheet metal with one bolt (which holds up). The clamps aren't going to slip, and the load is split between both of them as well.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by FadedSS

are these fully adjustable for those of us who are lowered??

The answer to you question is--- it doesn't matter. The reason a PHB needs it's length changed on a lowered car is because you are changing the relationship of the two mounts and the PHB swings in an arc (basically pulling the body to the right when you lower).

A Watts doesn't do that, that's the beauty of this design. But if for some reason you felt the need to change the length of the arms, you can as they are rod-ended just like a double-adjustable PHB.

[hpjunky98]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

It's a clamp load, and remember that normally all the lateral load is put only through some sheet metal with one bolt (which holds up). The clamps aren't going to slip, and the load is split between both of them as well.

Cool, thanks for the explaination. I wan't actually worried about the lateral load as much as I was about vertical ones (Potholes, hard corners etc), that could cause them to rotate around the axle, if that makes sence.

[jimmyblue]

Would there be a rubber mount version possible? I'm averse to
rod ends, my car is a daily driver. I like the Watts idea, the
Panhard does kick the car sideways on dips. But I'd rather not
sacrifice NVH and have stuck with (upgraded) rubber throughout
so far.

Glad you didn't decide to use the pumpkin, as I have seen on
other cars. I believe the clamp-slip fear could be fixed by a tack
weld or two (my tubes are welded and that was done on-car
with no ill effect).

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by hpjunky98

Cool, thanks for the explaination. I wan't actually worried about the lateral load as much as I was about vertical ones (Potholes, hard corners etc), that could cause them to rotate around the axle, if that makes sence.

Ahhh, not unless you have no suspension travel (and you have plenty). They are bolted to the axle and the axle is still as free as ever to move up and down. The arms and "propeller" allow the axle to move up and down and the main frame of the watts to stay in place, and everything to move nice and freely.

Here are some links that might help answer any questions. Not all are f-body related (ok none are):

These are good:

This one shows a Watts in action, though it's a little different design as far as how it mounts to the axle (they are using the rear end cover instead of bolting to the axle housing). This style is not practical given our swaybar configuration, and costs much more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J4xkHuP7QY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blDJ-bu3NLo&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5fvPfReX3Q&NR=1

http://www.fordpower.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1640 (yes, a Ford example as they've had Watts for a long time).

And maybe the most telling: http://steeda.com/products/steeda_watts_link_s197.php
1. Notice the price vs. this unit
2. Notice the axle mounting point configuration
3. Notice the much lesser materials.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by jimmyblue

Would there be a rubber mount version possible? I'm averse to
rod ends, my car is a daily driver. I like the Watts idea, the
Panhard does kick the car sideways on dips. But I'd rather not
sacrifice NVH and have stuck with (upgraded) rubber throughout
so far.

Glad you didn't decide to use the pumpkin, as I have seen on
other cars. I believe the clamp-slip fear could be fixed by a tack
weld or two (my tubes are welded and that was done on-car
with no ill effect).

Possibly in the future, but not at this time.

I'll step on a limb here and say that I believe Jim feels much the same as I do here. You are doing these things for a minimum of deflection and any sort of rubber or urethane bushing compromises that goal to some degree. Honestly sometimes performance comes at a price. Though, I gotta say I don't have a lot of noise issue at all from rod-ended PHB's anyway. Much less than say rod-ended LCA's, and those complaints 95% of the time stem from loose nuts.

[Suaveat69]

Sam,

Will the Watts create more clearance or less for over the axel TD?

Thanks

[VIP1]

Am I right in the impression that a Watts Link is intended for improved handling? As in autoX and Road Racing vs. Drag Racing. If so, I am interested, but I'm not at the point to plunk down the money yet. Any consideration of Johnny Joints instead of Heim Joints? It would still give the articulation of the Heim Joints but be more comfortable for us Daily Drivers. I don't have any experience with Johnny Joints though. I'm only going by what I've read/heard. (I did have heim joints on my car until recently though.)

I don't like how the stock suspension feels over bumpy curvy roads... kinda like being tossed around. Would this improve that?

[hpjunky98]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

Ahhh, not unless you have no suspension travel (and you have plenty). They are bolted to the axle and the axle is still as free as ever to move up and down. The arms and "propeller" allow the axle to move up and down and the main frame of the watts to stay in place, and everything to move nice and freely.

Makes sence. I was under the impression the mounting points would take on more load than that. Thanks for clearing that up.

Originally Posted by VIP1

Am I right in the impression that a Watts Link is intended for improved handling? As in autoX and Road Racing vs. Drag Racing. If so, I am interested, but I'm not at the point to plunk down the money yet. Any consideration of Johnny Joints instead of Heim Joints? It would still give the articulation of the Heim Joints but be more comfortable for us Daily Drivers. I don't have any experience with Johnny Joints though. I'm only going by what I've read/heard. (I did have heim joints on my car until recently though.)

I don't like how the stock suspension feels over bumpy curvy roads... kinda like being tossed around. Would this improve that?

It should be a consistant, solid feel turning left or right, rather than feeling as though the rear axle is being pushed or pulled by the chassis. This should also eliminate alot of rear end play issues that cause ruined tires...

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by Suaveat69

Sam,

Will the Watts create more clearance or less for over the axel TD?

Thanks

I think I answered this in another post--but, I'm hear and don't want to leave it hanging.

There is more room mostly side to side because of the way it's build vs. the stock setup and it's PHB brace. It's more room for duals side by side, not so much for 4" single systems (but a little more there too).

There is not less room in any way, it is more.

[Sam Strano]

Originally Posted by VIP1

Am I right in the impression that a Watts Link is intended for improved handling? As in autoX and Road Racing vs. Drag Racing. If so, I am interested, but I'm not at the point to plunk down the money yet. Any consideration of Johnny Joints instead of Heim Joints? It would still give the articulation of the Heim Joints but be more comfortable for us Daily Drivers. I don't have any experience with Johnny Joints though. I'm only going by what I've read/heard. (I did have heim joints on my car until recently though.)

I don't like how the stock suspension feels over bumpy curvy roads... kinda like being tossed around. Would this improve that?

This was asked elsewhere, about the rod-ends vs. bushings. At this time, it's rod-end only. This isn't a toy piece and is meant for the best axle to body location. Adding deflection via bushings compromises this, and again, good rod-ends (in this case Aurora or FK, neither of which are junk) aren't noisy like cheap ones.

As for handling. Yes, it's meant for handling improvements. It helps the way the rear acts. With a PHB, which is effective and much better than say a G-body or Mustang 4-link, the roll centers move around depending on which way you are turning. It lowers when you turn left, raises when you turn right. This happens because the PHB is bolted to the axle and the body, but the relationship changes between both in opposite ways as the car moves in different directions. Do you need to autox for this to happen to you? Nope. And FWIW, there have been stock cars Watts Links on them. Even way back in 1978-1985... The Mazda RX7 had a Watts as OEM equipment 30 years ago. But they cost more, which is why you don't see them more (and the fact there are few solid axle cars anymore).

This is a supsension location, and geometry part. It's an improvement from a PHB. It costs more to be sure, but if you can swing it, and find your car acts differently in lefts than in rights and or rubs tires on one side more than the other a Watts can help you out a lot. It won't be for everyone, and in all honesty, I'm not sure what the issue you are having is... but I see Bilstein HD in your sig, and they aren't what they used to be, primarily in the rear. Shocks and springs and all that still matter, and a Watts can't fix a problem that is related to springing or damping.

[hpjunky98]

Ive been doing alot of reading online. These things have been available, as most of you know, to the mustang guys for a long time. Upon reading alot of reviews, Ive gathered a few things i thought Id share.

1) These setups are not just for hardcore track racers. They make a noticible difference in street manors.

2) Changing lanes, highway offramps and onramps, hard braking and strait line tracking are all areas where the Watts link can offer a significant advantage and overall feel to the car.

3) Because the rear is forced to center at all times, you no longer get the sensation that you are waiting for the rear end to catch up to you on spirited driving.

4) The flick of the wrist required to settle the car from being upset by an obstruction or uneven pavement surface that we are all used to is virtually eliminated. Powersliding is different in a good way. The car should feel much more in control and less "floaty".

Anyway I'm defenently considering being a guinia pig... the price is just somthing I have to think about. The product is actually very well priced compared to many similar units, but its still not cheap. Seems like this is one of those things the car should have come with in the first place. If I do end up getting one, I have a feeling Ill be as obsessed about it as I am right now with the Konis.

[Sam Strano]

FYI: Some addition specifications have been added. Things like more specifics on tubing, axle clamps and propeller specs:

http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=67&ModelID=7

And hpjunky is right, these are not new, they've been around for a while, just never for our cars. Just Google Watts Link, or Watts Linkage and get ready for the hits to come in. In fact Watts Links are what is used under SCCA Trans-Am (R.I.P.), GT1, Australian V8 SuperCars....

Take your time, look around, decide. I have mine on order, and a few others are now on order.

BTW, these are Pre-orders. Credit Cards will not be charged until the units are within days of shipping.

[VIP1]

Originally Posted by Sam Strano

It won't be for everyone, and in all honesty, I'm not sure what the issue you are having is... but I see Bilstein HD in your sig, and they aren't what they used to be, primarily in the rear. Shocks and springs and all that still matter, and a Watts can't fix a problem that is related to springing or damping.

Thanks for the reply!

I don't want to hijack this thread to discuss my rear suspension problems though... Suffice it to say, there is room for improvement. ..... Dreaming of an S5....

I appreciate the response