Welding a 6pt

[dmart]

I'm gonna buy a mild steel 6pt from wolfe and weld it in myself. Only shops I talked to around here either didn't do CM or wanted 2000 dollars for a 6pt, I don't think so.

The install doesn't sound too bad to me but with everything I buy theres always something I get stuck on. Anyone have any tips for doing this? I have all winter to do it so I'll be taking my time.

[mitchntx]

We build cages for road racing. And there is a reason why we have to charge $2000. It takes a LOT of time.

Heres is one of our cages in a 3rd gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/NicksBuild.htm

And here is a simpler cage in a 4th gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/Chassis4.htm

[Nimitz87]

Originally Posted by mitchntx

We build cages for road racing. And there is a reason why we have to charge $2000. It takes a LOT of time.

Heres is one of our cages in a 3rd gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/NicksBuild.htm

And here is a simpler cage in a 4th gen ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/Chassis4.htm

and neither of those cages are what the seller is describing...

I got quoted $1500 for a 10 point chromoly painted.

I think the general rule is $100/point.

as far as tips...I don't really have any except get the jig notched, here it makes it night and day difference on installing.

Chad

[dmart]

Yeah, I understand the big prices for the real nice cages, or even a 10pt....but a basic 6pt? gimme a break. It's gonna kill me to get the extra 20-25 lbs from steel, but I'll take 20 pounds of sprung weight over the rear to save 1500 bucks.

[red91z]

2 grand for a 6 point is crazy. I've done several moly eight points with swingouts for 1400. Swingouts take some extra time as well.

[bgblockelcamino]

Originally Posted by red91z

2 grand for a 6 point is crazy. I've done several moly eight points with swingouts for 1400. Swingouts take some extra time as well.

and that is quite a bit of work too. done quite a few. usually picky when it comes ot install. even if mild steel i still TIG weld them since i like teh finish results better. i know it is overkill but at same time i know my work will be seen by others.

[red91z]

I'm the same way. Tig everything, and find it real hard to keep my mouth shut when I see shabby cage work.

[gcpoland]

The question I always ask myself is, Do I want to go upside down in a cage that I welded mysef? The answer has always been no. It is one of those things best left to experience, in my opinion.

Gary

[99345hp]

I am a welder by trade, and I dont think I would have any problem welding a 6pt. in for $600. That would be if the car is already gutted. I wouldn't even try to mig weld a cage, because I take to much pride in my work. I havn't ever welded a rollcage, but welding up all kinds of pipe in plants cant be much different.

For all of you that have welded cages, how do you prep the notched ends of the tubing? Do you bevel the end so you can run a root pass then fill it up and cap it? I know it would take longer, but I know the welded area would be a ton stronger. Just curious.

[mitchntx]

Yes, we bevel the edges.

The high costs are more associated with prep. Seam sealer, undercoating, fuel and brake lines, and the fuel tank must come out to ensure a good weld.

And the floor plate we put in a few rosettes so that the floor plate and floor pan don't act like a drum.

The details is the difference between a $1000 job and a $2000 job.

[99345hp]

Why do the fuel and brake lines need to be removed? Non of them are inside the car. I also dont see why the fuel tank must come out.

I dont mean to really dog on your work, but I looked at the posts you have up top, and I wouldn't call that a $2000 job. You said that you prep the ends? You must have just started doing that, because you didn't even grind the mill scale off of the tubing. I am going to be helping a fabricator here in town this winter, so the first chance I get I will post up my prep work and my welding. The welds may be strong, but they dont look good at all. I would be pretty pissed if i paid 2000 to have someone weld up and install a cage, and the welds look that way. I guess thats why you paint them before giving it to the customer?

[mitchntx]

LOL ... well, I'm not the welder, but we have a lot of "bad looking" welds out there. I know welders, as a whole, compare pecker sizes by the neatness of their welds.

In 98 and newer cars, the gas tank is plastic and just an inch or so away from the deck where the rear down bar mounting plates SHOULD go. And the plastic fuel and brake lines run directly below where we have to mount the A-pillar bar.

Of course, many mount the rear down tubes on the fender wells ... a single layer of 16 gauge metal. I would hate to bet my life on that thin metal.

Details ...

Oh yes, and by rule, we have to use .120 wall DOM 1 3/4" tubing. It's around $5 a foot and there is 120' of tubing in that 3rd gen. After tax and delivery, that's $800 worth of steel. If we could use the cheaper steel, we could probably get the price down to a few hundred bucks too.

[SilverGhost]

98's have metal tanks. 99+ have plastic.

[99345hp]

Im not camparing "pecker" size to anyone, im just saying that I wouldn't want to pay a couple thousand dollars for something that looks like that. You didn't answer my question about the tube prep. Why not prep the ends, or at least get the mill scale off of the tube before welding? It will make welding a lot easier and will probably look better too.

[mitchntx]

Originally Posted by 99345hp

You didn't answer my question about the tube prep. Why not prep the ends, or at least get the mill scale off of the tube before welding? It will make welding a lot easier and will probably look better too.

Yes I did ...

Originally Posted by mitchntx

Yes, we bevel the edges.

[99345hp]

ummm... so where's the bevel? I didn't see a bevel on anything in those pictures. If I was going to do this I would put a 45 degree bevel on all ends of the tubing. I would also clean all dirt, scale and little bits of rust off the ends about 1-2" from the weld. But what do I know. Im just 25 and have 2 years of welding school, 1 year of welding x-ray parts for aerospace, and 2 years of welding pipe in a nuclear powerplant. No, I havn't built a cage, but I do know something about welding.

[red91z]

Couple small pics of a moly cage in a Z I did. Personally I don't like the bars coming down on top of the gas tank area. I take them all the way to the rear frame rails.

[99345hp]

^^^there ya go, thats more like it. here is a picture of some slick tig welding I found just to see what was out there.

[mitchntx]

Originally Posted by 99345hp

ummm... so where's the bevel? I didn't see a bevel on anything in those pictures. If I was going to do this I would put a 45 degree bevel on all ends of the tubing. I would also clean all dirt, scale and little bits of rust off the ends about 1-2" from the weld. But what do I know. Im just 25 and have 2 years of welding school, 1 year of welding x-ray parts for aerospace, and 2 years of welding pipe in a nuclear powerplant. No, I havn't built a cage, but I do know something about welding.

Which nuke? I've been at Comanche Peak since construction.

All the tubes are fitted and tacked. Then removed, painted and prepped.

Originally Posted by red91z

Couple small pics of a moly cage in a Z I did. Personally I don't like the bars coming down on top of the gas tank area. I take them all the way to the rear frame rails.

Right above the upper spring perch the deck is double walled. It's also the points where the rear half the car's weight is supported.

I've seen several cars with rear down bars going from the main hoop to the rear frame rails. The span between connection points is too far without bracing. This was after looking at a lot of cars that have been through some serious wrecks.

[99345hp]

Duke energy stations. Oconee and McGuire.
Im going by the pictures that you have in those two links. Those tubes arn't painted and they are fully welded.