new motown LS engine block!! SBC+LSX heads
Yay! a block that can hold 2000HP!
Everyone that's had an old school SBC that made 2000HP raise your hands....anyone......bueller....
The 9 and 10 sec cars here only have 600-800HP.
The people making 2000HP aren't drawing the line at swapping conversion motor mounts. They aren't running small blocks either.
The old school SBC people are just going to buy a set of AFR heads for way less then the block and put those on their SBC. After all if they are scared of LSx stuff they are scared of LSx heads they would need and they would probably be scared of a new fangled block and conversion headers.
The only niche group I can see is racing in some class that requires and limits you to certain things. But then there's really no telling if this will be allowed in their rules either.
Everyone that's had an old school SBC that made 2000HP raise your hands....anyone......bueller....
The 9 and 10 sec cars here only have 600-800HP.
The people making 2000HP aren't drawing the line at swapping conversion motor mounts. They aren't running small blocks either.
The old school SBC people are just going to buy a set of AFR heads for way less then the block and put those on their SBC. After all if they are scared of LSx stuff they are scared of LSx heads they would need and they would probably be scared of a new fangled block and conversion headers.
The only niche group I can see is racing in some class that requires and limits you to certain things. But then there's really no telling if this will be allowed in their rules either.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 385
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From: Granada Hills, Ca
People with the 1500+hp LS engines have external oil pump or dry sumps.. Those pieces alone are more than the cost of the new
Motown block and a $150 tilton oil pump that can withstand 9000 rpm
Motown block and a $150 tilton oil pump that can withstand 9000 rpm
DMracing...
I guess you're referring to me as one of the fantasy engine builders...
As a few other people said, to each their own. Obviously someone already spent the money designing this (better their money then mine). Anyways, my main point is that there are so many old schoolers that think the ls style stuff is incapable of holding up, when in reality it has proven itself time and time again especially in forced induction worlds. To add to this, we have a ton of great sponsers on here who are ever evolving the line to make up for any/all weak points.
Lets agree to disagree guys, its not like they're threatening the ls world at all...
I guess you're referring to me as one of the fantasy engine builders...
As a few other people said, to each their own. Obviously someone already spent the money designing this (better their money then mine). Anyways, my main point is that there are so many old schoolers that think the ls style stuff is incapable of holding up, when in reality it has proven itself time and time again especially in forced induction worlds. To add to this, we have a ton of great sponsers on here who are ever evolving the line to make up for any/all weak points. Lets agree to disagree guys, its not like they're threatening the ls world at all...
if someone wants to keep a carb/mounts/trans this would be perfect for a swap in to an old car. you guys look at things one dimensional. there are other people with different needs than you guys.
Thank you, I was starting to think everyone has theyre head so far up an lsx *** they forget about everyone else.
Even more than just that too, you can keep accessories in the same location, rotating assembly and all your current wiring too, no need to cut/splice, change connectors, etc. This is an LSx forum, I just didn't think that people were that serious when they said LSx was touched by god and LSx>* and all that bullshit, guess I was wrong.
Hell I bet you could build a 6.0 ls with more power for less money than that block. I really think its a stupid idea. All because somebody somewhere wants ls heads on their sbc. Don't get me wrong, I have a very stout sbc in my s10 right now. But I am eventually replacing it with a stouter 6.0 that will run on junk gas.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: Granada Hills, Ca
Why are we getting into a pissing match over this? It's just a block and to be honest, it isn't just for people with standard sbc ****. I have a 15.5:1 404 inch LS2 that makes over 700hp naturally aspirated.. Unfortunately, I can't put the cam I want in it because I know the ls1 oil pump (even my hd/hv moroso pump) is going to come apart at anything over 7800rpm. I have lunati rods, lunati crank and custom pistons and a $4000 set of heads. I am pretty sure I could hit the 800hp mark if I could spin it to 8400rpm. I just don't trust it.
Yes, I could buy an LSX block, but then I can't use a bet drive without a ton of money in machining and I still would have to use a factory style oil pump because I can't run a dry sump or external oil pump for the class I am running.
It may seem stupid to some of you with street cars, but for serious drag racers that can't use dry sumps or external oil pumps, this is the perfect block.
Yes, I could buy an LSX block, but then I can't use a bet drive without a ton of money in machining and I still would have to use a factory style oil pump because I can't run a dry sump or external oil pump for the class I am running.
It may seem stupid to some of you with street cars, but for serious drag racers that can't use dry sumps or external oil pumps, this is the perfect block.
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On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 128
Likes: 2
From: Stockett, Montana
Seems kind of pointless doesn't it? Why the hell would you use an old style block when any factory LS block has 6 bolt, cross bolted mains, and a skirted block? If you're going to build an LS enging just do it.
I can't take it! How about bore length?oil pumps?oil pans?piston speed?But the big question is "what is it?" I see advantages and disadvantages. Is it a quagmire? This is just cool to read about.thanks JC
I can see the block being the right choice for some people. As mentioned, about the only non-SBC components used are the heads and the intake. With all the different head configurations out there for the SBC, I'm sure the cam companies have cores that can be used.
Just out of curiosity, how much does it cost to buy a LS block with 4.125" bores?
I think it would have been a better idea to have spent the money developing a SBC head with LS ports.
Ken
Just out of curiosity, how much does it cost to buy a LS block with 4.125" bores?
I think it would have been a better idea to have spent the money developing a SBC head with LS ports.
Ken
I see the benefit in this block. I put a 98 LS1 in my Monza and because the LS is a deep skirt block it sits a lot lower. I had to change out the stock steering box and crossmember for a rack and a lower crossmember. I would have been better off buying this block and swaping over all my expensive gen 1 parts and buying a set of heads. It would have probably been cheaper in the end. There is more to this then just making power as the Gen 1 and LS are proven power producers.
Bill
Bill
Originally Posted by ten5nova
Seems kind of pointless doesn't it? Why the hell would you use an old style block when any factory LS block has 6 bolt, cross bolted mains, and a skirted block? If you're going to build an LS enging just do it.
I see the point. No more factory style shitty LS oil pumps that self destruct over 7800rpm. Now you can build a 9000rpm LS engine without a dry sump or external oil pump. The 4 bolt splayed caps are far superior to any factory ls block, except for the LSX block.
Even with the 6 bolt mains, they are notorious for walking unlesss you get them pinned or put the billet caps and main girdle.
I know I am seriously worried about my oil pump coming apart, but I can't run a dry sump or external oil pump in the class I am running.
Even with the 6 bolt mains, they are notorious for walking unlesss you get them pinned or put the billet caps and main girdle.
I know I am seriously worried about my oil pump coming apart, but I can't run a dry sump or external oil pump in the class I am running.
Thread Starter
TECH Regular
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Joined: Jan 2007
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From: San Bernardino CA
it would be great for using a muncie or richmond 5/6 speed with mechanical linkage. or updating an existing setup in a classic vette, nova, camaro, or chevelle.
all my ATS t56 parts (cross member, pedal hydraulics, ls7 clutch, ls7 flywheel, and new t56 slave cylinder) cost me a butt load of money for my 69! i sold a super case (autogear) m22 4-speed with hurst shifter, lakewood bell, and center ford 10 spline DF clutch for cheap. i wish i could have kept it. because the T56 i ended up with has a bunk 3rd gear, tearing that drivetrain out again over a finished car isnt going to be fun at all.
i still think this new block is kick ***. i sold all my sbc parts for next to nothing for my LS swap. and to tell you the truth i hate electric fuel pumps too! i needed to also buy a sumpped tank and external fuel pump.
im running a carbed ls1 by the way. i still wonder what problems people will face with headers.
all my ATS t56 parts (cross member, pedal hydraulics, ls7 clutch, ls7 flywheel, and new t56 slave cylinder) cost me a butt load of money for my 69! i sold a super case (autogear) m22 4-speed with hurst shifter, lakewood bell, and center ford 10 spline DF clutch for cheap. i wish i could have kept it. because the T56 i ended up with has a bunk 3rd gear, tearing that drivetrain out again over a finished car isnt going to be fun at all.
i still think this new block is kick ***. i sold all my sbc parts for next to nothing for my LS swap. and to tell you the truth i hate electric fuel pumps too! i needed to also buy a sumpped tank and external fuel pump.
im running a carbed ls1 by the way. i still wonder what problems people will face with headers.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 385
Likes: 0
From: Granada Hills, Ca
Headers will be the same. the motown block is 9.24 deck which is the same as a standard ls engine.
Somebody mentioned, why not just put the money into making an ls type head for a standard sbc and they do.. it's called a symmetrical port head and they are very expensive.
Somebody mentioned, why not just put the money into making an ls type head for a standard sbc and they do.. it's called a symmetrical port head and they are very expensive.
I called them on fri. and at Bill Mitchel they said the block was (fully machined)2600.00? and that it needed some dedicated parts kit that is 584.00 so it is pricey. I do not know if it would be any cheaper at Jim Pace.
splayed 4 bolt mains are just as effective as the 6 bolt mains the LS1s have. no one ever talks about pushing water with the old school 4 bolt heads. i could be wrong, but i haven't seen anything said. also its the mowtown block so its right up there with the dart little M and stuff as far as HP it can handle. you can also run a better ring package on the pistons if you use a 5.85 or 6in rod you can get the rings lower in the piston. oil pumps are also a big deal. the only custom part about the package is the cam, which needs a rear gear for the dis. i also see it being a cheap way to get FI. use a LS1 intake crank tigger and coil packs. alot cheaper then any set up for the old school motors. also you can use a mechnical fuel pump on it if need be. it has a place without a doubt. someone needs to figure out how much it costs.