Beware of bogarts-May come apart at high speeds and low speeds
Were you the original owner? When did you purchase them? Do you have your receipt or record of when you purchased them? They are obviously older than 1 year as you mentioned. What tires were typically used? What size is the wheel?
There's usually more to a story than what you've written. I'm not sure who you spoke with, I know it wasn't me.
Though we cannot guarantee a product for ever, we do try to take care of our customers. Repairs generally can be done if the wheel is not fubar'd.
I don't believe for one second Rich (and I know I wouldn't have) told you to pound salt.
An 8 second car does stress components to a very high degree, nothing lasts forever. With the stress levels your components see, for safety, you should consistently look over all critical areas for damages before you attempt to use them.
Most likely, you didn’t' damage them going 15mph, they were stressed at some other point finally failing at another time. I'm not giving any excuses; I nor Rich like to see failures. We're not going to tell you that we won't help you though. On the other hand, we take each circumstance on an individual basis and we are here to help.
Give me a call if you'd like to discuss this further.
There's usually more to a story than what you've written. I'm not sure who you spoke with, I know it wasn't me.
Though we cannot guarantee a product for ever, we do try to take care of our customers. Repairs generally can be done if the wheel is not fubar'd.
I don't believe for one second Rich (and I know I wouldn't have) told you to pound salt.
An 8 second car does stress components to a very high degree, nothing lasts forever. With the stress levels your components see, for safety, you should consistently look over all critical areas for damages before you attempt to use them.
Most likely, you didn’t' damage them going 15mph, they were stressed at some other point finally failing at another time. I'm not giving any excuses; I nor Rich like to see failures. We're not going to tell you that we won't help you though. On the other hand, we take each circumstance on an individual basis and we are here to help.
Give me a call if you'd like to discuss this further.
I had a similar thing happen but with my D10 runner. I had bought them used from another memember. I called SJM and they took real good care of me even though I had not bought the wheels straight from them. Shipped it off and had it back good as new in about a week and a half. No complaints from me great customer service!!
I do not own a set of Bogards, so I could be wrong on this one, but from what I uderstand they are not SFI approved like a Weld wheel may be.
Could this be a clue as to why they failed?
I got no stake in this, just trying to see if Bogards are SFI approved...
Could this be a clue as to why they failed?
I got no stake in this, just trying to see if Bogards are SFI approved...
rule book What rule book says you have to have an SFI wheel?
SFI certs are not necessary nor add additional strength to a wheel. …Or tell you that because it has its certs it’s a better configuration.
Many wheels are not certified but will pass. Ours will as well as others. Some welds are certified, others welds are not. This doesn't mean one is stronger than the other due to the certs.
For example, I believe a weld drag alumastar is certified, their new street/strip weld wheel is not. The street strip wheel is much more durable than welds drag alumastar. Run the alumastar on the street, it will break/bend much quicker than their street/strip wheel.
No wheel is impervious to failure, as mentioned; I don't like to see ours fail either. It does happen with all drag wheel manufactures though. Due to the nature of racing, wheels take a beating. We actually have an alumastar in house being reworked from damage, the customer told us weld would not warranty or fix them and called us (customer statement).
Once again, I'm not making excuses, I don't want to see failures. We DO support our customers and help to repair/replace them. We are not in the market to tell our customers that you're stuck now and are SOL.
Drag racing components by nature are designed to lower rotating mass and increasing performance to the extreme. This by nature means that it has a limited purpose and does need inspection. This may be sort of a stretch as an analogy, but think of an airplane, they are designed to be light and strong. Due to the design, there is a life expectancy of each part and the plane is inspected from time to time.
Many wheels are not certified but will pass. Ours will as well as others. Some welds are certified, others welds are not. This doesn't mean one is stronger than the other due to the certs.
For example, I believe a weld drag alumastar is certified, their new street/strip weld wheel is not. The street strip wheel is much more durable than welds drag alumastar. Run the alumastar on the street, it will break/bend much quicker than their street/strip wheel.
No wheel is impervious to failure, as mentioned; I don't like to see ours fail either. It does happen with all drag wheel manufactures though. Due to the nature of racing, wheels take a beating. We actually have an alumastar in house being reworked from damage, the customer told us weld would not warranty or fix them and called us (customer statement).
Once again, I'm not making excuses, I don't want to see failures. We DO support our customers and help to repair/replace them. We are not in the market to tell our customers that you're stuck now and are SOL.
Drag racing components by nature are designed to lower rotating mass and increasing performance to the extreme. This by nature means that it has a limited purpose and does need inspection. This may be sort of a stretch as an analogy, but think of an airplane, they are designed to be light and strong. Due to the design, there is a life expectancy of each part and the plane is inspected from time to time.
Last edited by SJM Manufacturing Inc; Sep 10, 2009 at 09:58 AM.
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6 & 8 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
From: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
The stamp cert. as mentioned though doesn't reassure a customer its more durable than one that doesn't. The stamp shows it meets mininum requirements...which most wheels meet anyways. Case in point welds street/strip wheel.
He's correct, I should have clarified, most classes due not require the stamp. For the ones that due, you need the stamp obviously.
The stamp cert. as mentioned though doesn't reassure a customer its more durable than one that doesn't. The stamp shows it meets mininum requirements...which most wheels meet anyways. Case in point welds street/strip wheel.
The stamp cert. as mentioned though doesn't reassure a customer its more durable than one that doesn't. The stamp shows it meets mininum requirements...which most wheels meet anyways. Case in point welds street/strip wheel.
I think this particular instance may have been avoided by performing periodic inspections on the wheels. It may seem like over kill, but I look my car over all the time. Bell housing, rearend, wheels/tires for cuts and cracks. This most likely did not happen in one shot. The wheel has probably been cracked for a while.
I've had no problems with my Bogart's, which I bought off a member on here (toplessta if I remember correctly, I know he lived a 1/2 hour from pitttsburg and that was a 8 hour drive for me to go there and pick them up... 1 way LOL) a LONG time ago, like 6 years ago now.
I never really used them on the street much, maybe 500 miles or so, just to a couple car shows and whatnot.
My next set of wheels probably won't be Bogarts, not beacuse I've had problems, more because I want a double beadlock and am unsure at this point if I am going to go with a 15x10 or a 15x12. That, plus I think, when I go to the racecraft front end I am probably going to have to get a spindle mount wheel as well.
Bogart makes a quality wheel, they're also suspect to all the things that other LW wheels are, I've seen more prostar's bent over then I have bogarts, not because they're any weaker, it's just becuase there's more of them out there.
I never really used them on the street much, maybe 500 miles or so, just to a couple car shows and whatnot.
My next set of wheels probably won't be Bogarts, not beacuse I've had problems, more because I want a double beadlock and am unsure at this point if I am going to go with a 15x10 or a 15x12. That, plus I think, when I go to the racecraft front end I am probably going to have to get a spindle mount wheel as well.
Bogart makes a quality wheel, they're also suspect to all the things that other LW wheels are, I've seen more prostar's bent over then I have bogarts, not because they're any weaker, it's just becuase there's more of them out there.
6 & 8 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,284
Likes: 0
From: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
.
I wasn't referring to you SJM. I knew you understand why there are SFI wheels.
I was just informing tboy.
I have 4 spindle mount Bogarts, and dbl beadlocks, never an issue.
Now my car can't do a big wheelie, and it set's down nice & smooth.
So I don't get a lot of shock on every pass.
Trust me, if I thought there was a greater chance of failure, with Bogarts.
I would dump them & the spares immediately.
.
On The Tree
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Mid Michigan
SFI certs are not necessary nor add additional strength to a wheel. …Or tell you that because it has its certs it’s a better configuration.
Many wheels are not certified but will pass. Ours will as well as others. Some welds are certified, others welds are not. This doesn't mean one is stronger than the other due to the certs.
For example, I believe a weld drag alumastar is certified, their new street/strip weld wheel is not. The street strip wheel is much more durable than welds drag alumastar. Run the alumastar on the street, it will break/bend much quicker than their street/strip wheel.
No wheel is impervious to failure, as mentioned; I don't like to see ours fail either. It does happen with all drag wheel manufactures though. Due to the nature of racing, wheels take a beating. We actually have an alumastar in house being reworked from damage, the customer told us weld would not warranty or fix them and called us (customer statement).
Once again, I'm not making excuses, I don't want to see failures. We DO support our customers and help to repair/replace them. We are not in the market to tell our customers that you're stuck now and are SOL.
Drag racing components by nature are designed to lower rotating mass and increasing performance to the extreme. This by nature means that it has a limited purpose and does need inspection. This may be sort of a stretch as an analogy, but think of an airplane, they are designed to be light and strong. Due to the design, there is a life expectancy of each part and the plane is inspected from time to time.
Many wheels are not certified but will pass. Ours will as well as others. Some welds are certified, others welds are not. This doesn't mean one is stronger than the other due to the certs.
For example, I believe a weld drag alumastar is certified, their new street/strip weld wheel is not. The street strip wheel is much more durable than welds drag alumastar. Run the alumastar on the street, it will break/bend much quicker than their street/strip wheel.
No wheel is impervious to failure, as mentioned; I don't like to see ours fail either. It does happen with all drag wheel manufactures though. Due to the nature of racing, wheels take a beating. We actually have an alumastar in house being reworked from damage, the customer told us weld would not warranty or fix them and called us (customer statement).
Once again, I'm not making excuses, I don't want to see failures. We DO support our customers and help to repair/replace them. We are not in the market to tell our customers that you're stuck now and are SOL.
Drag racing components by nature are designed to lower rotating mass and increasing performance to the extreme. This by nature means that it has a limited purpose and does need inspection. This may be sort of a stretch as an analogy, but think of an airplane, they are designed to be light and strong. Due to the design, there is a life expectancy of each part and the plane is inspected from time to time.
Which begs the question: do you recommend some sort of NDT (non destructive test, eddy current or dye penetrant etc.) on the wheels. If so at what interval? 500 passes? More or less? Thats not what I was getting at...
Coming from an Architectural background I know that some building components are certified by agencies like UL, ASTM and so on for their performance. For instance, a fire rated door is tested by UL to withstand a fire of a curtain temp. for a curtain period of time. They put a stamp on it, include it in their standards catalog, and I know that when I spec out that door, it will meet the required spec. If I need a components to be rated for 1hour fire resistance I look it up in the UL book and am safe in doing so as long as the component was tested by UL and passed the test.
I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that SFI tests components such as fire retardent clothing, safety belts, and in this case wheels and if they pass the test, they get an SFI stamp. Knowing, and/or hearing that Bogards were not SFI approved I, once again, assumed, they they were either A. not tested, or B. did not pass the test; which could explain the failure.
Applied my knowledge of building components safety to racing component safety. Looks like they are not monitored the same way.
See above statement...
Coming from an Architectural background I know that some building components are certified by agencies like UL, ASTM and so on for their performance. For instance, a fire rated door is tested by UL to withstand a fire of a curtain temp. for a curtain period of time. They put a stamp on it, include it in their standards catalog, and I know that when I spec out that door, it will meet the required spec. If I need a components to be rated for 1hour fire resistance I look it up in the UL book and am safe in doing so as long as the component was tested by UL and passed the test.
I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that SFI tests components such as fire retardent clothing, safety belts, and in this case wheels and if they pass the test, they get an SFI stamp. Knowing, and/or hearing that Bogards were not SFI approved I, once again, assumed, they they were either A. not tested, or B. did not pass the test; which could explain the failure.
Applied my knowledge of building components safety to racing component safety. Looks like they are not monitored the same way.
SFI certs are not necessary nor add additional strength to a wheel. …Or tell you that because it has its certs it’s a better configuration.
Many wheels are not certified but will pass. Ours will as well as others. Some welds are certified, others welds are not. This doesn't mean one is stronger than the other due to the certs.
For example, I believe a weld drag alumastar is certified, their new street/strip weld wheel is not. The street strip wheel is much more durable than welds drag alumastar. Run the alumastar on the street, it will break/bend much quicker than their street/strip wheel.
Many wheels are not certified but will pass. Ours will as well as others. Some welds are certified, others welds are not. This doesn't mean one is stronger than the other due to the certs.
For example, I believe a weld drag alumastar is certified, their new street/strip weld wheel is not. The street strip wheel is much more durable than welds drag alumastar. Run the alumastar on the street, it will break/bend much quicker than their street/strip wheel.
Had a Bogart break on me years ago and lucky for me I was only going 10mph.
I would NEVER put them on any car I drive. If that rim had came apart at 150mph I might not be here today. You guys are risking your cars at best and this guy says "well you have to check stuff on an 8 second car" thats B/S I dont check my Alumastars I know they wont fall apart from a crappy weld job.
I'm not the only one ... do a search on the internet.
I would NEVER put them on any car I drive. If that rim had came apart at 150mph I might not be here today. You guys are risking your cars at best and this guy says "well you have to check stuff on an 8 second car" thats B/S I dont check my Alumastars I know they wont fall apart from a crappy weld job.
I'm not the only one ... do a search on the internet.
I cracked a front runner. But I drove it on the street on the weekends. Never used a radial tire on it though. Can't think of a major pot hole I ever hit, but over time they became weak and cracked. I knew what I was in for with them on the street. So no hard feelings from me.
I don't get the whole track only thing. They see a ton of abuse there as well. Examples being wheel stands, and tire shake. It's just a matter of time till something breaks. If you want to use the lightest part, you better check it after each event.
edit: btw, I had bolt togethers
I don't get the whole track only thing. They see a ton of abuse there as well. Examples being wheel stands, and tire shake. It's just a matter of time till something breaks. If you want to use the lightest part, you better check it after each event.
edit: btw, I had bolt togethers
Last edited by dlove; Sep 10, 2009 at 03:08 PM.