500ci ERL Super Deck?
I am like the biggest doubter when it comes to this block, hehe
I WISH someone would post up any kind of successesfull hp/ track times, high compr. etc with this block as a base.
6 bolt heads? why would you need 6 bolt heads on a block that hasn't seen any sort of compression, fi, nitrous??
If it's been done I'd really be interested to see the results.
I WISH someone would post up any kind of successesfull hp/ track times, high compr. etc with this block as a base.
6 bolt heads? why would you need 6 bolt heads on a block that hasn't seen any sort of compression, fi, nitrous??
If it's been done I'd really be interested to see the results.
but i read your arcticle when i got my new mag and it says you have a stock fuel pump. i will have to call BS on that. no way. it has to be atleast a 225
And you're sooooo nice about it too.
How 'bout- "hey man, I read the article got a question about the fuel pump......."
I'll just pretend you asked in a civil but skeptical way.
Fact is that it is indeed the stock fuel pump and you're correct that in itself would not be enough, so I also have a Boost a pump installed. If you look closely by the throttle linkage in the engine pic you should be able see the microswitch that activates it at full throttle.
I look at it this way....
A BBC with 454ci will completely crush a SBC 454ci....in power output. No comparison. Its because of the top end.
WHY? Because BBC heads flow so much more than SBC heads. Cubes are cubes....they have no idea that they are sitting in a big block or a small block. The same amount of air is being pumped by those pistons in both blocks. If they can breath more air delivered by the heads.....they make more power.
Right now, there just simply isn't a head that can feed 500ci TO ITS MAX POTENTIAL. Or even near its max potential.
There are 420 cfm heads for our LSx's and they will do quite nicely, but there's no way they'll feed 500ci where the limiting factor will become "cubic inches". The weak link with LSx's are still the top end packages available.
.
it would take some heavily worked on c5r heads and a matching sheetmetal intake, but even then i doubt they would flow enuff to feed a 500ci engine, but it sure would use em up and still make impressive power
I've watched over the years how heads just keep getting better and better flowing...and these better and better heads keep getting installed onto 427ci's and the like. The dyno numbers just keep increasing and increasing with the same cubes. There's still no LSx type head that can feed a 427ci small block TO THEIR MAX POTENTIAL. In my opinion.
500ci....man thats gonna take a head that can flow in the upper 400's cfm. Dart Big Chiefs for a BBC flow 465 cfm and 324 cfm exhaust.....thats crazy. And thats not even the best ones.
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500ci....man thats gonna take a head that can flow in the upper 400's cfm. Dart Big Chiefs for a BBC flow 465 cfm and 324 cfm exhaust.....thats crazy. And thats not even the best ones.
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FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
You don't need any 500 cfm head to make more power on a 500 inch LS1. Who cares how much hp per inch you are making when hp by itself it what matters. The 500 inches brings the power for even a 420 cfrm head down to an rpm level that can really live on the street. This is what the bigger street engines are about plain and simple not ultimate hp per inch.
If you want that you shouldn't even put more than a stock crank or even less in your engine. You will make more hp per inch but get crushed by a bigger lower hp per inch deal everytime since in the real world you don't need to carry anymore weight at all with a larger engine. A 632 will slaughter that 454 even with the same heads as well and we've done it quite a few times.
Now in some silly race class where they are trying to control speed you may be required to carry a huge amount of weight with the larger engine since they are trying to keep speeds down and make the smaller stuff competitive but again you don't need to add any more in a real street car in the real world.
If you want that you shouldn't even put more than a stock crank or even less in your engine. You will make more hp per inch but get crushed by a bigger lower hp per inch deal everytime since in the real world you don't need to carry anymore weight at all with a larger engine. A 632 will slaughter that 454 even with the same heads as well and we've done it quite a few times.
Now in some silly race class where they are trying to control speed you may be required to carry a huge amount of weight with the larger engine since they are trying to keep speeds down and make the smaller stuff competitive but again you don't need to add any more in a real street car in the real world.
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
I might add that I have never had a single customer want to build a smaller engine than what they already have and I have had about 500 go the other direction. Anyone drives one of these 427-454 deals and they usually already want a 468-500. As has been said the LSx heads just keep improving and so these new larger CID capable blocks also will come to dominate the LSx landscape soon.
We have a 445 inch TFS235 headed combo that has run mid to lower 9s and trapped 144+ mph on pump gas with a FAST 90 manifold already shifting at only 7000 rpm. Now it is getting even bigger with a sleeved block and will run low 9s. You won't see any small engines doing this with a hydraulic roller and pump gas at low rpm.
Many people told me that this engine would be SLOWER due to the large crank and engine size vs. heads supposedly too small and the FAST 90 manifold. It wasn't slower. It dropped a half second in the quarter some how.
We have a 445 inch TFS235 headed combo that has run mid to lower 9s and trapped 144+ mph on pump gas with a FAST 90 manifold already shifting at only 7000 rpm. Now it is getting even bigger with a sleeved block and will run low 9s. You won't see any small engines doing this with a hydraulic roller and pump gas at low rpm.
Many people told me that this engine would be SLOWER due to the large crank and engine size vs. heads supposedly too small and the FAST 90 manifold. It wasn't slower. It dropped a half second in the quarter some how.
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
I've watched over the years how heads just keep getting better and better flowing...and these better and better heads keep getting installed onto 427ci's and the like. The dyno numbers just keep increasing and increasing with the same cubes. There's still no LSx type head that can feed a 427ci small block TO THEIR MAX POTENTIAL. In my opinion.
I am not completely disagreeing with you either as heads getting better will help all these larger engines more proportionately than their smaller versions. What I am saying is that whether the heads can fill any engine to it's "MAX POTENTIAL" or not the larger ones will still make more power and at more street friendly lower rpm.
Will a 480 cfm head generally make more ultimate power on a 500 inch deal than a 420 cfm head with all else equal? Yes! No argument there.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Hey, what's goin' on?
You guys know that ARAO ENGINEERING came out
with a 32 valve head for LSx engines...
Home Page - http://www.araoengineering.com/
LSx Head Page - http://araoengineering.com/LSX.htm
And they also have a six bolt per cylinder option to
match LSX blocks and others with 6 bolt per cylinder..
I think it says they flow 405 cfm...
But you gotta think about it differently,
it wouldn't be the same as a
405 cfm flowing 2 valve head.
I don't really know anything... so don't bark at me
if I am wrong about something. I registered litterally to
post this and offer up some information.
In a 2010 Camaro...
I want to build a 500ci motor.. with dual 2.3liter blowers...
dual 55mm turbos... and those 32 valve heads.
Best of everything. Downtuned to be a RETARDED
over the top street motor. Couldn't care less what
people come to think of it. But they'll be scared...
So am I on to something...
Or just a fool???
You guys know that ARAO ENGINEERING came out
with a 32 valve head for LSx engines...
Home Page - http://www.araoengineering.com/
LSx Head Page - http://araoengineering.com/LSX.htm
And they also have a six bolt per cylinder option to
match LSX blocks and others with 6 bolt per cylinder..
I think it says they flow 405 cfm...
But you gotta think about it differently,
it wouldn't be the same as a
405 cfm flowing 2 valve head.
I don't really know anything... so don't bark at me
if I am wrong about something. I registered litterally to
post this and offer up some information.
In a 2010 Camaro...
I want to build a 500ci motor.. with dual 2.3liter blowers...
dual 55mm turbos... and those 32 valve heads.
Best of everything. Downtuned to be a RETARDED
over the top street motor. Couldn't care less what
people come to think of it. But they'll be scared...
So am I on to something...
Or just a fool???
I'm not sure about the dual blowers, It seems like it would be a better idea to just run 2 bigger turbos like 76's or 80's. ERL doesn't reccomend using the 500ci block for big nitrous or FI though. I think for that kind stuff they go down on cubes to a 482. Your probably going to need heads that flow crazy to feed big cubes like that so go for it and make sure you post results.
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
I will probably just use a 454 LSX block...
I'm not sure why I think that won't satisfy me haha..
But the dual/dual twin charge setup is not meant to
be efficient. I want something that EASILY makes 1000hp
tuned down.. and looks and sounds crazyy
You sure these 500ci blocks can't handle boost?
I thought you needed crazy airflow to feed them?
Doesn't two turbos feeding two blowers
get the job done????
-Or are 500ci LS blocks just doomed for all us
crazys that like the sound of a 500ci LS motor???
.... wiiitthh alot of boost..
I'm not sure why I think that won't satisfy me haha..
But the dual/dual twin charge setup is not meant to
be efficient. I want something that EASILY makes 1000hp
tuned down.. and looks and sounds crazyy
You sure these 500ci blocks can't handle boost?
I thought you needed crazy airflow to feed them?
Doesn't two turbos feeding two blowers
get the job done????
-Or are 500ci LS blocks just doomed for all us
crazys that like the sound of a 500ci LS motor???
.... wiiitthh alot of boost..
I will probably just use a 454 LSX block...
I'm not sure why I think that won't satisfy me haha..
But the dual/dual twin charge setup is not meant to
be efficient. I want something that EASILY makes 1000hp
tuned down.. and looks and sounds crazyy
You sure these 500ci blocks can't handle boost?
I thought you needed crazy airflow to feed them?
Doesn't two turbos feeding two blowers
get the job done????
-Or are 500ci LS blocks just doomed for all us
crazys that like the sound of a 500ci LS motor???
.... wiiitthh alot of boost..
I'm not sure why I think that won't satisfy me haha..
But the dual/dual twin charge setup is not meant to
be efficient. I want something that EASILY makes 1000hp
tuned down.. and looks and sounds crazyy
You sure these 500ci blocks can't handle boost?
I thought you needed crazy airflow to feed them?
Doesn't two turbos feeding two blowers
get the job done????
-Or are 500ci LS blocks just doomed for all us
crazys that like the sound of a 500ci LS motor???
.... wiiitthh alot of boost..
if your gonna do that your gonna needalot bigger turbo's than 55's... in a twincharged setup the blower is to help get the motor spinning while the turbo's take over on the top end.. if your gonna do soething like that you'd need around 80-88mm turbos with the blowers
the 32v is a huge price tage.
also i would do some looking around before you bought them. i have heard of a few people that got **** on. after they ordered them. they never got head and in law suit with company.
also i would do some looking around before you bought them. i have heard of a few people that got **** on. after they ordered them. they never got head and in law suit with company.
FormerVendor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
We're building one now with the All-pro LSW heads that flow over 400 CFM. It's a pump gas NA engine, so the compression and cam can't be extreme.The LSW heads are a lot simpler than the 32V set-up and flow close to the same.
For big boost we recomend the smaller bore for better head gasket width for sealing between the cylinders for a 482 ci. The rod length shortens to 6.6 for the piston dish also.
For big boost we recomend the smaller bore for better head gasket width for sealing between the cylinders for a 482 ci. The rod length shortens to 6.6 for the piston dish also.
Hey, what's goin' on?
You guys know that ARAO ENGINEERING came out
with a 32 valve head for LSx engines...
Home Page - http://www.araoengineering.com/
LSx Head Page - http://araoengineering.com/LSX.htm
And they also have a six bolt per cylinder option to
match LSX blocks and others with 6 bolt per cylinder..
I think it says they flow 405 cfm...
But you gotta think about it differently,
it wouldn't be the same as a
405 cfm flowing 2 valve head.
I don't really know anything... so don't bark at me
if I am wrong about something. I registered litterally to
post this and offer up some information.
In a 2010 Camaro...
I want to build a 500ci motor.. with dual 2.3liter blowers...
dual 55mm turbos... and those 32 valve heads.
Best of everything. Downtuned to be a RETARDED
over the top street motor. Couldn't care less what
people come to think of it. But they'll be scared...
So am I on to something...
Or just a fool???
You guys know that ARAO ENGINEERING came out
with a 32 valve head for LSx engines...
Home Page - http://www.araoengineering.com/
LSx Head Page - http://araoengineering.com/LSX.htm
And they also have a six bolt per cylinder option to
match LSX blocks and others with 6 bolt per cylinder..
I think it says they flow 405 cfm...
But you gotta think about it differently,
it wouldn't be the same as a
405 cfm flowing 2 valve head.
I don't really know anything... so don't bark at me
if I am wrong about something. I registered litterally to
post this and offer up some information.
In a 2010 Camaro...
I want to build a 500ci motor.. with dual 2.3liter blowers...
dual 55mm turbos... and those 32 valve heads.
Best of everything. Downtuned to be a RETARDED
over the top street motor. Couldn't care less what
people come to think of it. But they'll be scared...
So am I on to something...
Or just a fool???
In a nice way though. Just misinformed.ARAO heads have been used many times, NRE uses them on some of their builds. But the company is owned by scumbags who rip people off and have **** for customer service. If you do buy a set, DO NOT pay for them until they are in your hands, complete with all the parts needed for install. Then hope you never need new parts from them....because you may never get them.
500ci is way too much cubes for a turbo/sc'er set-up.....if 1,000+ HP is all you want. Little 402ci LSX iron blocks with twin 72mm's are making 1,500 HP and very nice for the street. No need for the Arao heads either, ALL-Pro 6-bolts all the way.....All-Pro is a very reputable company run by good people who don't screw customers over...and for forced induction the best flowing heads are not necassary to make huge power.
Or build a 402ci LSX iron with a single turbo 94mm and you'll also make well over 1,000 HP.
.
FWIW Thomson Automotive built a 400ci. LSX block with the prototype DR LS heads and with twin turbos made 2048 hp or something close to that. It's an aluminum rod motor so I'm sure some H-beams could be thrown and and knock the MAX RPM Down a notch.....