Clutch Dragging?
Clutch Dragging? I was at a stop light on my way home from work and like always I had it in neutral until I saw the light turn red for the other lane, I went to put it in first and it didn't want to go in until I used some pressure. Scared the beejezuz out of me, its usually as smooth as butter.
Anyway, I get home and have the car idling in my driveway I put it in neutral, foot off the clutch, then I put my foot in the clutch and move to first, it's hard but it goes and I notice the car lurch forward slightly. Clutch on the floor the whole time.
If I put my ear on the console I can hear a faint whirring sound when in neutral with my foot off the clutch. If I put the clutch down (still in neutral) the whirring sound very slowly slows down...if I leave my foot in the clutch long enough (4-5 seconds) the whirring is gone and it shifts to 1st like it used to, like butter. If I put my foot in the clutch and move the shifter to 1st quickly it gets hard to put in but when it does go in the whirring stops and has a slight lurch forward.
The clutch is an LS7 with about 2500 miles.
Any help is appreciated.
Anyway, I get home and have the car idling in my driveway I put it in neutral, foot off the clutch, then I put my foot in the clutch and move to first, it's hard but it goes and I notice the car lurch forward slightly. Clutch on the floor the whole time.
If I put my ear on the console I can hear a faint whirring sound when in neutral with my foot off the clutch. If I put the clutch down (still in neutral) the whirring sound very slowly slows down...if I leave my foot in the clutch long enough (4-5 seconds) the whirring is gone and it shifts to 1st like it used to, like butter. If I put my foot in the clutch and move the shifter to 1st quickly it gets hard to put in but when it does go in the whirring stops and has a slight lurch forward.
The clutch is an LS7 with about 2500 miles.
Any help is appreciated.
Since you are using an LS7 assembly it is possible that there are several causes. All the usual suspects are still there (air in the system that occured as a result of heat or a bad slave or master that is bapassing fluid internally and thus burping air into an otherwise sealed system) but you also have to remember that the stock LS7 kit uses a SAC-style pressure-plate. SAC refers to the self-adjusting mechanism that is used to maintain a consistent pedal engagement point throughout the life of the clutch. The ratcheting mechanism responsible for this can miss-adjust leading to inconsistent release and dragging.
The first thing I suggest is that you check your reservoir for dark of cloudy fluid. If it is discolored then flush and refill the system with new fluid and see if that makes a difference, If it doesn't then it's time to dig a bit deeper and consider the the other possibilities listed above. Let me know what you find relative to fluid and I will be happy to assist you further. Thanks!
The first thing I suggest is that you check your reservoir for dark of cloudy fluid. If it is discolored then flush and refill the system with new fluid and see if that makes a difference, If it doesn't then it's time to dig a bit deeper and consider the the other possibilities listed above. Let me know what you find relative to fluid and I will be happy to assist you further. Thanks!
In the other thread you asked about what gears it affected. I have only felt it in 1st starting yesterday and this morning, although last week I did do a quick 3 > 4 and it grinded but I didn't think much of it.
The clutch fluid in the reservoir is discolored but it is not black.
As mentioned in the other thread, it has a new slave but has never been bled (or at least not bled correctly, the mityvac never pulled any bubbles so I assumed the slave was pre-bled). On that note, how much vacuum can I pull without causing damage? I did between 10 and 16 Hg when I tried.
The clutch fluid in the reservoir is discolored but it is not black.
As mentioned in the other thread, it has a new slave but has never been bled (or at least not bled correctly, the mityvac never pulled any bubbles so I assumed the slave was pre-bled). On that note, how much vacuum can I pull without causing damage? I did between 10 and 16 Hg when I tried.
If this affects a single gear the it could easily be relative to a transmission issue instead of another external problem. Because of the discoloration of the fluid I strongly suggest you flush and refill with clean fluid. I usually use about 12-15hg/in when using a mighty vac. I have never had any instances of this causing damage. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks,
I usually use the Mighty-vac to maintain constant pull on the system and open the cap on the reservoir. Then as you pull fluid through it will reduce the level of fluid in the reservoir and you add new fluid to replace it. Do this until you get fresh/clean fluid consistently. Just don't let the reservoir go empty. You will need an extra set of hands to do this. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks!
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It appears that you have ahydraulic issue, but if it only happnes in taht one gear, it might be tranny related.
However, as Spec said...do teh basics first....check reservoir, flush if dirty, then rebleed...more than likely that will address your problem.
However, as Spec said...do teh basics first....check reservoir, flush if dirty, then rebleed...more than likely that will address your problem.
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Verdad Gallardo I flushed it and gravity bled it and the issue is still there.
It happens in all gears, not just 1st.
The only things on the car with more than 3k miles are the master cylinder and transmission itself. I'd like to run this car into a tree.
It happens in all gears, not just 1st.
The only things on the car with more than 3k miles are the master cylinder and transmission itself. I'd like to run this car into a tree.
Slave with 3k miles
LS7 clutch setup with 3k miles
New master cylinder installed today
Re-bled the car with the following procedure:
1. Pump and hold to floor
2. Open bleeder screw
3. Close bleeder screw
4. Release pedal
Repeat steps 1 - 4
Still have the problem. I'm so tired of this ****, I do not recommend a T56 F-body for anybody. But that is another rant.
Spec01 mentioned a problem with the SAC earlier. What is the least expensive way to fix this? I just want to drive my car. My truck is a work truck and was not meant for the past month of daily driving.
LS7 clutch setup with 3k miles
New master cylinder installed today
Re-bled the car with the following procedure:
1. Pump and hold to floor
2. Open bleeder screw
3. Close bleeder screw
4. Release pedal
Repeat steps 1 - 4
Still have the problem. I'm so tired of this ****, I do not recommend a T56 F-body for anybody. But that is another rant.
Spec01 mentioned a problem with the SAC earlier. What is the least expensive way to fix this? I just want to drive my car. My truck is a work truck and was not meant for the past month of daily driving.
The only way to check the SAC-Mechanism is to pull the transmission. There is no way to adjust it or even check it with the trans in place. One other possibility is transmission fluid or rather the lack thereof. Do you know if they flushed and refilled the trans when they installed the clutch? Do you know what fluid was used? Have you check the fluid level? The fact that this is affecting all gears makes me think that it is either a clutch release issue (potentially related to the SAC-type plate) or that you are low on trans fluid.
Trans fluid was flushed and refilled on clutch install, I think store brand ATF. I just opened the fill hole on the driver side of the trans and fluid came out so I assume it is full.
Also, when I put it in 1st the car lurches with the clutch pedal on the floor. But if I try putting it in 4th it makes an awful grinding noise. Don't know if that makes any difference or not.
Also, when I put it in 1st the car lurches with the clutch pedal on the floor. But if I try putting it in 4th it makes an awful grinding noise. Don't know if that makes any difference or not.
The clutch simply isn't releasing. This could be an SAC issue and the easiest way to check this would be to pull the parts and check the compression of the springs that sit in a horizontal orientation on the plate. If you are looking at the pressure-plate, while still bolted to the flywheel (and the crank for that matter), the coil-springs that sit in the top of the cover (if memory serves there should be 3) should be equally compressed/expanded. If they are not spaced equally the SAC-mechanism has miss-adjusted and plate will not actuate fully. If you pull the trans take a few pics of the parts and I will be happy to look them over for you. Thanks and have a good weekend!
Another thing, it is only hard to get in gear when going from neutral to any gear. When driving, the 1>2, 2>3, etc, are perfect. Its just when I put it in neutral and let my foot off the clutch, then back in the clutch and into any gear that gives me problems.
I'm going to try bleeding until my face explodes and if that doesn't work I'll pull the trans out next weekend to look at the pressure plate.
I'm going to try bleeding until my face explodes and if that doesn't work I'll pull the trans out next weekend to look at the pressure plate.
I bled it for almost two hours yesterday, and still does it. Will have the trans apart by sometime Friday afternoon to have a look inside. I guess it has to be the LS7 pressure plate, slave or throwout bearing.
Update: Didn't pull trans apart, bought and installed an adjustable master instead - $350 down the toilet. Same problem, even with it adjusted all the way out - car on, neutral, clutch in, hard to get in gear and lurches forward when it does go in. I wish my garage would fall in and crush it so I can buy a Mustang or something that actually works.
For those reading this, do not buy a GM T56 car, ever.
For those reading this, do not buy a GM T56 car, ever.
I took the trans off, replaced the slave cylinder and checked the springs on the PP for misadjustment (they look fine) and..............................STILL HAVE THE PROBLEM. Pictures of the PP springs below.
Does anybody have any idea whatsoever what this could be?
Here are the bleed techniques I have tried over the past few months, maybe I am missing some?
1. Gravity
2. MityVac from top
3. MityVac from bottom
4. Bench bleeding the master
5. Push pedal to floor, open bleeder, close bleeder, release pedal
6. Open bleeder, push pedal to floor, close bleeder, release pedal
7. Slightly push pedal, open bleeder, push pedal to floor, close bleeder, release pedal
Now time for some real talk, this car is a week or two away before I take it off my insurance and it becomes a permanent fixture in my parent's backyard barn. Unless someone else has any other suggestions, I'm going to bleed the **** out of it this coming weekend and if that doesn't fix it then I will be calling GEICO on Monday. I have not driven it since almost August and I'm on my last leg.
Does anybody have any idea whatsoever what this could be?
Here are the bleed techniques I have tried over the past few months, maybe I am missing some?
1. Gravity
2. MityVac from top
3. MityVac from bottom
4. Bench bleeding the master
5. Push pedal to floor, open bleeder, close bleeder, release pedal
6. Open bleeder, push pedal to floor, close bleeder, release pedal
7. Slightly push pedal, open bleeder, push pedal to floor, close bleeder, release pedal
Now time for some real talk, this car is a week or two away before I take it off my insurance and it becomes a permanent fixture in my parent's backyard barn. Unless someone else has any other suggestions, I'm going to bleed the **** out of it this coming weekend and if that doesn't fix it then I will be calling GEICO on Monday. I have not driven it since almost August and I'm on my last leg.
Last edited by UCABlackChevy; Nov 16, 2009 at 08:21 AM. Reason: Added bleeding techniques
I had this issue when I put my clutch in. took about a month before it was even drivable. Had to shut it off at stop lights to be able to get it in gear. at about 500 miles it started getting better. I guess the clutch has an auto adjustment and it adjusted itself. I still have to basically push the clutch through the floor to get it fully disengaged. I may try to do the adjustable stock MC mod in a couple weeks. A buddy has my mity Vac and I'm not doing it with out that.
I do have the Tick remote bleeder, which doesnt really help, the only way I could get all the air out was with the mity vac.
btw, I changed all the hydraulics when I did the clutch...
Also, thats what my PP looked like when it went in;
http://img37.imageshack.us/i/cimg3598.jpg/
I do have the Tick remote bleeder, which doesnt really help, the only way I could get all the air out was with the mity vac.
btw, I changed all the hydraulics when I did the clutch...
Also, thats what my PP looked like when it went in;
http://img37.imageshack.us/i/cimg3598.jpg/