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Tested all major spark plug wires. My results...
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by great421
MYK02K -
Well, I'll say it - Thanks for the effort!
Oh, and don't worry about trying to answer these individuals who have asked all the EE101 questions, they've already make up their minds on what they'll use regardless of the facts.
For everyone else -
V = I x R Ohm's Law (Voltage = Current x Resistance)
Power (Watts) = Amperage x Voltage (number of electrons x the strength of force)
Resistance (R) is measured in Ohms
Current (I) in Amps
Voltage (V) in Volts
Coils multiply voltage at the expense of amperage; so, you can't just magically increase both amperage AND voltage at the same time. But, as seen below, resistance is a BIG factor w/ respect to current (I) in this relationship of three.
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 351 Ohms (stock wire resistance) = 267 Amps
but -
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 0.1 Ohms (best aftermarket wire resistance) = 1 MILLION Amps!
Think about it! Do the math. Don't just react.
"But, MSDs rock!"
Well, children, yes they do "rock" they just don't rock better than everyone else. They are better than stock (1397 vs. 267), roughly 5 times better; but the Granatelli's are 716 TIMES better than the MSDs!
71,600 percent! That's figgin' huge!
Additionally, the Granatelli's are 3745 TIMES better than stock; that's 374,500 percent better!!
Ohm's Law is your friend.
MLE
Well, I'll say it - Thanks for the effort!
Oh, and don't worry about trying to answer these individuals who have asked all the EE101 questions, they've already make up their minds on what they'll use regardless of the facts.
For everyone else -
V = I x R Ohm's Law (Voltage = Current x Resistance)
Power (Watts) = Amperage x Voltage (number of electrons x the strength of force)
Resistance (R) is measured in Ohms
Current (I) in Amps
Voltage (V) in Volts
Coils multiply voltage at the expense of amperage; so, you can't just magically increase both amperage AND voltage at the same time. But, as seen below, resistance is a BIG factor w/ respect to current (I) in this relationship of three.
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 351 Ohms (stock wire resistance) = 267 Amps
but -
Current flow (I) @ 100,000 Volts (typical HEI output) and 0.1 Ohms (best aftermarket wire resistance) = 1 MILLION Amps!
Think about it! Do the math. Don't just react.
"But, MSDs rock!"
Well, children, yes they do "rock" they just don't rock better than everyone else. They are better than stock (1397 vs. 267), roughly 5 times better; but the Granatelli's are 716 TIMES better than the MSDs!
71,600 percent! That's figgin' huge!
Additionally, the Granatelli's are 3745 TIMES better than stock; that's 374,500 percent better!!
Ohm's Law is your friend.
MLE
267 A would kill you (if you got zapped) and 1 million A would melt your coils, spark plugs and engine block;
sure, Ohm's Law is true and may apply, but it's not a DC circuit nor is it a steady-state AC circuit, and the coil has inductance, and electric arcs are not governed by Ohm's Law, so Ohm's Law is only a part of the whole;
While I'm not disagreeing with you, if a wire was 3745 times better, wouldn't you feel the difference...?
I don't think wires can be compared based on resistance alone.
Originally Posted by Justin00SS
What results? More power? Better mpg?
What is there to gain from changing sparkplug wires other then getting a cooler color?
What is there to gain from changing sparkplug wires other then getting a cooler color?
Please don't misinterpret what I posted...I have not compared 10 different wires and determined that Magnecor is the best plug wire...I posted my "perceived" results(as in NOT measured by a dyno), so take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, no plug wire on earth will measurably increase your horsepower or torque output...unless of course your current spark plug wires are faulty, in which case you are simply restoring the lost power.
As you have said, they are all pretty much the same, so I bought the ones that I felt were made well and had a reasonable price. I am continuing to buy them because they work for me...that's all.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Justin00SS
And yet nobody has been able to show where any aftermarket sparkplug performs better (ie- hp gain, mpg gain, et gain) then the stock ones.
Heres the link:
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/video12.htm
Originally Posted by NOBR8KSS
Results like this are subjective...they really can't be measured. The power increase (if any) would be minimal and probably unmeasurable on any dyno. Fuel mileage changes with every tank based on city driving vs. highway driving so how could you compare one tank to the next.
Please don't misinterpret what I posted...I have not compared 10 different wires and determined that Magnecor is the best plug wire...I posted my "perceived" results(as in NOT measured by a dyno), so take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, no plug wire on earth will measurably increase your horsepower or torque output...unless of course your current spark plug wires are faulty, in which case you are simply restoring the lost power.
As you have said, they are all pretty much the same, so I bought the ones that I felt were made well and had a reasonable price. I am continuing to buy them because they work for me...that's all.
Please don't misinterpret what I posted...I have not compared 10 different wires and determined that Magnecor is the best plug wire...I posted my "perceived" results(as in NOT measured by a dyno), so take it with a grain of salt.
IMO, no plug wire on earth will measurably increase your horsepower or torque output...unless of course your current spark plug wires are faulty, in which case you are simply restoring the lost power.
As you have said, they are all pretty much the same, so I bought the ones that I felt were made well and had a reasonable price. I am continuing to buy them because they work for me...that's all.
I have LS2 plug wires because I was about to get MSDs or something. I wanted red ones and a guy over here gave me his stock LS2 wires for free. They are red and make me happy.
Originally Posted by TransAminal
Right here, Granateli did dyno test with stock and then with their set of wires. Showed a 15HP gain on the new Z06. They also have other videos to choose from.
Heres the link:
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/video12.htm
Heres the link:
http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/video12.htm
They also claim 17hp from a lid and 8hp from a maf.
Last edited by Justin00SS; Dec 4, 2006 at 03:53 PM.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
From: south jersey. again
ok here are the basics learned in school. first an automobile engine (notice i dint use the word motor,which is an electric device) is an air pump. i dont remember exactly the order but first, a device is used to start the process. which rotates the engine, then fuel and spark are introduced into the process. and bang combustion the more efficiant the process the more power is made.of course the power produced is limited by other factors such as compression ratio and flow of the heads and such.
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Originally Posted by Divergent Lightning
As for the Solid core Granatelli here is an excerpt from Magnacore.com
"SOLID CORE CONDUCTOR WIRES
Solid metal (copper, tin-plated copper and/or stainless steel) conductor wires...can cause all sorts of running problems...Solid metal conductor wires cannot be suppressed to overcome EMI or RFI without the addition of current-reducing resistors at both ends of wires."
"SOLID CORE CONDUCTOR WIRES
Solid metal (copper, tin-plated copper and/or stainless steel) conductor wires...can cause all sorts of running problems...Solid metal conductor wires cannot be suppressed to overcome EMI or RFI without the addition of current-reducing resistors at both ends of wires."
What's overlooked is that stock spark plug wires are intentionally designed with a significant amount of resistance to reduce RFI/EMI emmissions. Any uncontrolled RFI/EMI radiation will cause such running problems they have mentioned, not just solid core wires. Yes, our wires have a solid stainless steel inner core surrounded by a spirally wound silver-plated copper outter core; HOWEVER, our wires emit less RFI/EMI resistance than even the stock wires. This is done by our patented RFI/EMI protection ring on our wires. These protection rings prevent any interference that would cause such running problems presented in that excerpt.
Originally Posted by RevGTO
The spark does not burn the mixture, it ignites it. At what point does a difference of current affect ignition so that it degrades or enhances combustion? There's a point where a hotter spark becomes superfluous.
Originally Posted by Justin00SS
And yet nobody has been able to show where any aftermarket sparkplug performs better (ie- hp gain, mpg gain, et gain) then the stock ones.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 17
From: So.Cal.
Originally Posted by GMS Fleet
...Any uncontrolled RFI/EMI radiation will cause such running problems they have mentioned, not just solid core wires. Yes, our wires have a solid stainless steel inner core surrounded by a spirally wound silver-plated copper outter core; HOWEVER, our wires emit less RFI/EMI resistance than even the stock wires. This is done by our patented RFI/EMI protection ring on our wires. These protection rings prevent any interference that would cause such running problems presented in that excerpt....
Originally Posted by GMS Fleet
I am not saying your product isn't quality built and tested, but there is always a disclaimer on every product that says that actual gains may vary. For me to believe your claim I would need to see a high percentage (>80%) of the runs showing that same increase. Just simply running one base run and then one following test run should not constitute confirmed gain in power, specially when the gain is only 2%. Through my own experience and those of this forum, my friends and family replacing wires results only in fixing current problems in spark distribution and not freeing up any hidden spark.
Originally Posted by GMS Fleet
Banned
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Justin00SS
I would like to see a non-biased dyno. Thanks.
Of course whatever you think is right, and whenever someone posts evidence otherwise, you have a way to somehow discredit it.
Originally Posted by TransAminal
Some people will never be satisfied.
Of course whatever you think is right, and whenever someone posts evidence otherwise, you have a way to somehow discredit it.
Of course whatever you think is right, and whenever someone posts evidence otherwise, you have a way to somehow discredit it.
Reason I am not satisfied with the results is because a 10 hp gain is about a 2% difference from stock horsepower and I am pretty sure that falls in to the range of error on any dyno.
Originally Posted by TransAminal
Some people will never be satisfied.
Of course whatever you think is right, and whenever someone posts evidence otherwise, you have a way to somehow discredit it.
Of course whatever you think is right, and whenever someone posts evidence otherwise, you have a way to somehow discredit it.
Originally Posted by Divergent Lightning
no, I will be satisfied when a non-biased test is performed.
Reason I am not satisfied with the results is because a 10 hp gain is about a 2% difference from stock horsepower and I am pretty sure that falls in to the range of error on any dyno.
Reason I am not satisfied with the results is because a 10 hp gain is about a 2% difference from stock horsepower and I am pretty sure that falls in to the range of error on any dyno.
The factory plug wires are fine.Find a better way to spend your money....anybody can tell you anything to get your money.Remember its not who's gonna F@%K ya its who's gonna F@%K ya harder.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
From: south jersey. again
ok here is a simpler analogy. two cars are racing, one is in thee left lane which is nice and smooth plenty of traction. the other in the right its ok has a speed bump or two. who is going to win. im not saying spending more money or that stock wires arent fine either, or buying performance wires are the way to go. this is common sense, least resistance. this thread is giving me a headache
Originally Posted by jam01
ok here is a simpler analogy. two cars are racing, one is in thee left lane which is nice and smooth plenty of traction. the other in the right its ok has a speed bump or two. who is going to win. im not saying spending more money or that stock wires arent fine either, or buying performance wires are the way to go. this is common sense, least resistance. this thread is giving me a headache
Damn. I suck. I have no idea why I didn't hang with that 408 stroker. He had stock ls1 spark plugs wires and I have ls2 wires.
Why am I not faster then him and why is he putting down 500rwhp and I'm only at 350rwhp?
The know it all's know it all
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 500
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by GMS Fleet
From a marketing standpoint, If I looked at purchasing product A or B, factors such as quality and effectiveness plays heavy role in the decisionmaking process. I could purchase product A because it is much more effective in its purpose; however, after reading the label on product B, I change my mind and purchase product B instead. So why would I purchase product B knowing that product A is the most effective? What product B did was promote their quality while at the same time indirectly attack products A, C, D, & F with false or misconstrued claims about their effectiveness and quality.
What's overlooked is that stock spark plug wires are intentionally designed with a significant amount of resistance to reduce RFI/EMI emmissions. Any uncontrolled RFI/EMI radiation will cause such running problems they have mentioned, not just solid core wires. Yes, our wires have a solid stainless steel inner core surrounded by a spirally wound silver-plated copper outter core; HOWEVER, our wires emit less RFI/EMI resistance than even the stock wires. This is done by our patented RFI/EMI protection ring on our wires. These protection rings prevent any interference that would cause such running problems presented in that excerpt.
The objective of high performance wires is about creating a stronger spark, not a hotter one. There is no direct relationship between spark temperature and spark voltage. If you create a hotter spark, you are only increasing the chances of pre-ignition, engine knock, and damage to the pistons or crank.
Granatelli wires installed on a brand new C6 Z06 - DYNO PROVEN
What's overlooked is that stock spark plug wires are intentionally designed with a significant amount of resistance to reduce RFI/EMI emmissions. Any uncontrolled RFI/EMI radiation will cause such running problems they have mentioned, not just solid core wires. Yes, our wires have a solid stainless steel inner core surrounded by a spirally wound silver-plated copper outter core; HOWEVER, our wires emit less RFI/EMI resistance than even the stock wires. This is done by our patented RFI/EMI protection ring on our wires. These protection rings prevent any interference that would cause such running problems presented in that excerpt.
The objective of high performance wires is about creating a stronger spark, not a hotter one. There is no direct relationship between spark temperature and spark voltage. If you create a hotter spark, you are only increasing the chances of pre-ignition, engine knock, and damage to the pistons or crank.
Granatelli wires installed on a brand new C6 Z06 - DYNO PROVEN
Other people have eluded to the fact that the resistance test for ingition cable isn't exactly a fair comparison and that would be correct. It has to do with the way that the ignition cable performs its job.These are simple things to test with a KV probe with an oscilliscope. Spark is Spark and I would be willing to bet with a simple 15 dollar autozone KV tester these questions of Spark to the Plug could be resolved in a matter of minutes.
If you would like to submit your wires for exhuastive testing independent of your proported claims conatact me via private message and i will gladly compare them to stock ,Magnecore, MSD and other Comparable wires in terms of electrical performance along with dynomometer testing to further back up any and all claims.