The LS1 is better than the 2JZ OR the 2JZ is better because...
Teching In
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From: SPARKS
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 188
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From: Houston/ Austin, TX
I think its a hands down winner for the LSx based engines. If you were to decide between the two, why in your right mind would you decide on a 3.0L engine with capibility of MAYBE 4L when you can have a motor that can be punched out to 6.3L without ANY problem whatsoever (and Ive seen upwards of 8L)?
Bolt on for bolt on, the 2JZ might be ahead, but once you break the $4k-5k mark, the winner is hands down the LSx based motors.
Sure, you have 1000+ HP supras but the majority of them are dyno queens who have no power below 6k rpm and run M6s because autos get sneered at by ignorant ricers.
My point is, if you wanted to have a 9 second car... it is MUCH easier with an LSx based engine (hell, there are stock bottom end LSx cars running in the 9s). Hell, if you want 1000 HP, you could do that with a 500 cube LSx motor running a mere 5Lbs boost on pump gas and make 1000 TQ at 3k rpm. It could also be daily drivable and would probably still get 10-15 mpg in the city and 20+ on the highway. If weight is a problem, then resleeve an LS1 block and run a 450+ cube motor at 6lbs.
To me, its NO CONTEST whatsoever. However, I would not pull a running 2JZ out of a Supra unless it was to **** off some supra guys.
Bolt on for bolt on, the 2JZ might be ahead, but once you break the $4k-5k mark, the winner is hands down the LSx based motors.
Sure, you have 1000+ HP supras but the majority of them are dyno queens who have no power below 6k rpm and run M6s because autos get sneered at by ignorant ricers.
My point is, if you wanted to have a 9 second car... it is MUCH easier with an LSx based engine (hell, there are stock bottom end LSx cars running in the 9s). Hell, if you want 1000 HP, you could do that with a 500 cube LSx motor running a mere 5Lbs boost on pump gas and make 1000 TQ at 3k rpm. It could also be daily drivable and would probably still get 10-15 mpg in the city and 20+ on the highway. If weight is a problem, then resleeve an LS1 block and run a 450+ cube motor at 6lbs.
To me, its NO CONTEST whatsoever. However, I would not pull a running 2JZ out of a Supra unless it was to **** off some supra guys.
Teching In
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From: SPARKS
the new gm cast iron LSX block (the one on my profile) can be bored and stroked to a max of 482 cubic inch! out of a small block. unreal. if you have 2100 bucks for the block . but that motor would be bullit proof. easily can handle 50 plus pounds of boost and have enough power right off idle. the 2jz can do all of that except for 1 thing. the power off idle.. 2j's need a lil bit more time for that boost to kick in at 4500-6500 so they can enjoy 1000 1500 rpms of full boost. sorry not for me. i was on ebay and saw a supra that had 1042 dyno hp's. right in his description. he kills vipers from 60-130 mph.now that is a roll king if i ever seen one. but dont get me wrong the car is nice just not worth the 72000 buy it now price...
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 50
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by superlsx
geeze i think it was more of a pissing match over on my thread. that last post over on my put me over the edge. who in there right mind would spend 8 to 10g's on a single turbo uprade and nto touch the bottom end. i will bet that thing will not last 500 miles. give me 10g's and what 2jz???? you supra boys are to sesintive. "look i just got back from the dyno and put down 1200 whp. but on the way home i was walked on by a 500 whp ws6!!!
i went to streetfire and grabed the first supra dyno i could find enjoy that 6500 power curve...
i went to streetfire and grabed the first supra dyno i could find enjoy that 6500 power curve...
And I think 10k is a little high of an estimate for a single turbo setup on a Supra.
As far as 2jz vs. ls1, depends completely on your application/goals. The 2jz is a potent engine, especially if you're looking to make in the range of 600 or so hp as it needs no internal work to handle it. Of course, ignorant people get off topic and start discussing 482 cubic inch blocks and 6 second cars to try to prove which is the better motor.. which has nothing to do with what you should put in your street car of course, just a bigger dick contest.
Both motors can make more power than you'll EVER use in a street car, so i don't know why we're talking about the motor with the most potential here. I'd say for a street car the best choice would be the ls1 just because of the weight difference BUT for certain applications/hp goals a 2jz could be better.
P.S. Mr. superlsx, i got your roll racing right here *grabs crotch*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkxncds9poQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMWL6kUyWmU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJN7AYH2Huw
Last edited by njn63; Apr 13, 2007 at 07:21 AM.
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Teching In
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by superlsx
the new gm cast iron LSX block (the one on my profile) can be bored and stroked to a max of 482 cubic inch! out of a small block. unreal. if you have 2100 bucks for the block . but that motor would be bullit proof. easily can handle 50 plus pounds of boost and have enough power right off idle. the 2jz can do all of that except for 1 thing. the power off idle.. 2j's need a lil bit more time for that boost to kick in at 4500-6500 so they can enjoy 1000 1500 rpms of full boost. sorry not for me. i was on ebay and saw a supra that had 1042 dyno hp's. right in his description. he kills vipers from 60-130 mph.now that is a roll king if i ever seen one. but dont get me wrong the car is nice just not worth the 72000 buy it now price...
Your mention of the Bowtie LSX block intrigued me and I did some research. I still have a few questions though. How would it stack up to the Warhawk aluminum block or a Darton sleeved ls2? The latter is supposed to give the C5R a run for its money. Also, if one were to get an LSx, like any other 6 bolt block, what heads would be used?
As far as 2jz's go. I would really like to see a supra from a dig without starting at 6krpm, as in idle to 100mph, vs. an ls1 doing the same. A 10mph roll would should be pretty much the same.
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 50
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517
As far as 2jz's go. I would really like to see a supra from a dig without starting at 6krpm, as in idle to 100mph, vs. an ls1 doing the same. A 10mph roll would should be pretty much the same.
Originally Posted by GTOpowered240sx
2JZ is a great engine for its size
DOHC engines are big. I bet a 2JZ is every bit as big as 346 LS1, and guess which one weighs less?
There's lots of haters of anything foreign or of anything different than the mighty lsx. I love my f body, but looking at the low buck power potential (bolt ons) of the 2jz -vs- ls1 most would take the 2jz. Looking at the forged motor internals most would take a 2jz over the ls1. Looking at not breaking stock parts (rear ends, trannies) at even slightly modified power levels...most would take a 2jz over an ls1. The only substantial things counting against the 2jz are the lack of low end power and their higher purchase price. Only when the lsx motor is a ls2 or better would I personally rather have the lsx v8 if I was going to do a swap into a project car.
I remember when I had only some bolt ons (not quite bpu) in my old (automatic) supra I raced an 2001 ws6 with afr heads, healthy cam, & bolt ons at the track. I ran a few tenths faster than him with just over 2 mph higher trap speed. I have the timeslip somewhere..it was something like 12.2 @ 118 for me and 12.4 @ 115.7 for him. The reason why I have my fbody now is because back when I had a supra I heard of stories of some ls1 fbodys being high 12 second cars stock and I coudn't afford another tt supra (I'm not much for the styling anymore either). I wonder what a torque convertor and drag radials or spraying nitrous would have done for the old supra.
Call me a hater or a ricer, but really I just care about what is faster...that's why I'm considering ditching the fbody for a terminator.
My .02
I remember when I had only some bolt ons (not quite bpu) in my old (automatic) supra I raced an 2001 ws6 with afr heads, healthy cam, & bolt ons at the track. I ran a few tenths faster than him with just over 2 mph higher trap speed. I have the timeslip somewhere..it was something like 12.2 @ 118 for me and 12.4 @ 115.7 for him. The reason why I have my fbody now is because back when I had a supra I heard of stories of some ls1 fbodys being high 12 second cars stock and I coudn't afford another tt supra (I'm not much for the styling anymore either). I wonder what a torque convertor and drag radials or spraying nitrous would have done for the old supra.
Call me a hater or a ricer, but really I just care about what is faster...that's why I'm considering ditching the fbody for a terminator.
My .02
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Wi
i'm a Big fan of the 2JZ personally.
I have a few friends with some NASTY *** supra's sub 11's
and i just love them. The bottom end is pretty much "bulletproof"
and it's easy to find parts for. Sure it will be more expensive to build one over a
LS1 But thats why we as people are entitled to opinions
I have a few friends with some NASTY *** supra's sub 11's
and i just love them. The bottom end is pretty much "bulletproof"
and it's easy to find parts for. Sure it will be more expensive to build one over a
LS1 But thats why we as people are entitled to opinions
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by njn63
A small displacement turbo engine off idle... what do you think would happen? How about i cut your foot off and we see who is faster to the end of the block?
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 50
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From: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517
I never once mentioned I didn't know what would happen. Stop being a smartass. I just wanted to see a video because I highly doubt supra owners would consent to such a race being recorded on film.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2007
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I'm doing a swap on my 240sx and i considered both options. the price is what made me go with the ls1. for motor and tranny it's much cheaper. also i'm a fan of driving my car.(pumpgas) and with a supra your limitied to 550ish on pump?? ls1 has a much higher bar on pump gas.
Teching In
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Originally Posted by njn63
It's just a stupid argument and i really don't understand what you're trying to prove. No one in their right mind would launch off idle with a 2jz and if they are, they're not showing the true potential of the car. I don't know about you, but i like a fair comparison when I'm making a decision about 2 things.
Wow, what are you smoking... What argument? There is none. I merely stated I wished to see a video. I was not making a comparison of either engine. There is no claim, whatsoever, in my post and no evidence of any sort. I don't see where you get your idea that I have an arguement* from.
*In case you didn't know, an arguement is a claim with evidence.
Yes, I understand this is a thread comparing the two engines, but not everyone has to respond to the OP. Responding to other people's responses or merely making a comment is very much still in the realms of this thread. Otherwise, we would end up with a bunch of useless threads with one or two posts.
I'll make things more clear for you since you obviously have a problem with reading comprehension: I have no experience with either engine first hand and am in no position to voice an opinion on either one. I do however find both engines quite interesting and full of potential which is why I read and responded in this thread.
Teching In
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How many of you all actually have a 2jz that are giving advice on usable powerbands? I have a '02 WS6 and an Sc300 with a gte block in it. With a SP71GTHQ turbo I have on it. FULL BOOST is about 3800 RPM. Not unusable in the slightest.
With that said, I still think I'd prefer the low end of the LSX motors. I've never been one to enjoy straight line acceleration, but what ever floats your boat.
I want to drop an LS1 in my Porsche 944. Now that would be fun
With that said, I still think I'd prefer the low end of the LSX motors. I've never been one to enjoy straight line acceleration, but what ever floats your boat.
I want to drop an LS1 in my Porsche 944. Now that would be fun
